Michelle Glogovac (00:01.294)
Hi Jasmine.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (00:03.045)
Hi Michelle, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Michelle Glogovac (00:05.172)
I am so happy to talk to you. I know you already because I've read your book. So I always feel like that's something that I get a leg up on. I guess I've read your life story.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (00:10.929)
Mm-hmm.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (00:15.845)
Yes. Well, the true, and I've been listening to the podcast, so I feel like I know you a little bit as well. So this feels comfortable and familiar.

Michelle Glogovac (00:24.597)
I love it. Can you introduce yourself to everyone, please?

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (00:27.675)
Sure. My name is Jasmine Falk-Dickerson and obviously Falk-Dickerson is not my birth name, it's my married name. Recently people have been asking about that. But I'm an author, I'm a speaker and I'm a social identity advocate and cultural advocate and spend a lot of time talking about these kinds of things and I'm very much in the advocacy world for bridging cultural understanding. So thank you for having me.

Michelle Glogovac (00:53.079)
Thank you for coming. And let's start with what's a social identity advocate? What does that mean for those who have never heard that before?

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (00:58.807)
Yes. Yeah, so in the realm of sociology, we talk about so many aspects of who we are, right? What influences who we are and our identity. There's our own intimate identity and there's our social identity. So the identity that we have kind of explored and experimented with and developed over time that's influenced by who our family is, what our religious practices, if there are any, what our social norms are.

And then there's the identity that society places on us. When they look at us, they see, you know, our gender, maybe our race and ethnicity, maybe our position in society, if we're educated, what our job is, things like that. So those identities all intertwine into what now today we call intersectional identities. What I've done over the years is studying and trying to understand how our identities influence our relationship with the world and how it impacts whether we are connected with the world in healthy ways or in contentious ways.

And so much of the work that I've done both in my education and the work that I do today is really in trying to validate all types of self-expressed identities, those that we agree with and those that we don't agree with in order to find common ground and be able to find greater respect with one another so that the temperature that arises when we feel so, you know,

know, antagonistic with each other, hopefully comes down. And I think it all comes just from understanding and really having a sense of appreciation for our differences, but also acknowledging our similarities.

Michelle Glogovac (02:31.262)
having read your book, The Last Sandstorm, it makes complete sense why you do what you do.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (02:35.281)
I'm glad you found the link.

Michelle Glogovac (02:39.726)
I definitely see it. It tells me that you are – somebody said this word to me the other day that you're enlightened and I feel like that's another word for like evolved. Like you got down to knowing who you are and you did it at a very young age, I feel. You knew right away who you were, who you wanted to be, where you wanted to go. So let's go way back to there.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (02:49.881)
Hmm.

Michelle Glogovac (03:06.37)
where you were born because then people are gonna understand, yes, you did not fit in at a young age and you knew that you were meant for something else.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (03:06.597)
Yes.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (03:10.331)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (03:16.591)
Yeah, totally. Yes. So I was born in Saudi Arabia. My father was Saudi and my mom is Italian. And I grew up in Saudi Arabia in the early to mid 1970s. My parents met in Italy where my father was a student in Florence. My mom's from Florence. And so they met there in the 60s. And this keep in mind is part of the generation in Saudi Arabia that was the first to have sort of these

mixed marriages and mixed relationships with outside of the Arab world. Because Saudi Arabia was founded, this new iteration that we're familiar with was founded only in the late 1930s, literally when my dad was born. So this was a very new kind of country, super conservative, very reserved, very tribal for the longest time. And so exposure to the outside world was all very, very new in the 60s and 70s. And so when I was born, I could immediately tell that there was something odd about our family.

I did grow up in a community that was very much like mine. Saudi fathers married to Western moms, not all Italian. Most of the ones we interacted with closely were, but then American moms, French, Swiss, Spanish, from all parts of the world, even farther away, like Pakistani and Indian. And so growing up, it was very obvious we did not look exactly like our cousins, my full-blooded Saudi cousins, or the kids that I went to school with.

And so there was this kind of sense of like, who am I? And you know, what's going on? And my mom doesn't sound like all the other Arab moms. And I can tell, like, I'm thinking differently. I don't sound like them. And so that was really confusing and frustrating because I think that I was kind of alone in those thoughts because my parents wanted to normalize our experience so that we didn't have this like angst and worry and frustration. And they had no role models to follow, right? They didn't have a...

a manual and a book. And so that's kind of how I came about really starting to question the big, who am I at a very, very young age? And of course, traveling to Italy every summer to visit my Italian relatives, I was exposed to a whole other world and a whole other life and, you know, women doing things differently. And so I grew up with a lot of extremely binary opposite extremes and it was, it was hard.

Michelle Glogovac (05:34.446)
I found it very fascinating. Your mother was very much the same way, outspoken, didn't fit in. But what I found interesting was that your father grew up in Saudi Arabia and then married this Western woman who had her own ideas, who was more independent. And although he was reserved to an extent, he still embraced it, I felt like, because he did marry her and this is how you were raised.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (05:59.161)
Yeah. Yeah. So I would say my father innately was a really open-minded, super curious, I would even say, like I'd even dare say liberal for the standards in which, you know, he grew up around. So my parents were both fairly progressive. Let's use the word progressive, fairly progressive in their intellectual explorations. I think socially they were a little less curious and intrigued and driven by some of the things that I felt really

called or pulled towards. They were both kind of content in more of a social traditional life, but intellectually, I think they were both pretty, you know, stimulated with ideas and learning and understanding. And my mom is very intellectual from that standpoint, historically and philosophically and those kinds of things. But socially, she was and continues to be perfectly comfortable with a kind of a more traditional, you know, less vocally

aggressive way of thinking, let's say the word feminist. I just came out like the total oddball in that respect, for sure.

Michelle Glogovac (07:06.84)
And it seems like you were always surrounded by at least one powerful vocal woman starting with your English teacher. I loved how you connected your story of what she made you do for homework and you were like, what? No, to realize how powerful that was.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (07:14.981)
Yes.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (07:20.783)
Yeah.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (07:24.677)
Yeah, she, Mrs. Boissel is amazing. She's still, you know, doing her thing. She's Irish. And in fact, on my podcast, when I released my book, I interviewed her. got her on my podcast and we talked about the book. We talked about our relationship because she was deeply, deeply influential in my kind of trusting that I had ideas and that it was okay for me to express them, even if not out loud everywhere, but even in just my essays and my everyday, you know, essays and homework with her. And she's a, you know, she's a

tiny, she's a very petite woman, but walked into that space and just had so much command. And I was like, whoa, like this is, cause you don't, I didn't grow up seeing Saudi women like that or Arab women like that. Not that they didn't exist, but it just wasn't appropriate or culturally acceptable for them to be that kind of intensely prominent and taking space. And she didn't know any, any other way, right? She just showed up as herself and was deeply inspiring. And so yes, it started with.

Michelle Glogovac (08:15.534)
Mm-hmm.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (08:20.143)
figures like that that were around me that I would just like hold on to every little piece that kind of reminded me that what she had is also in me. You and then it went on to, you know, bigger figures that are a little more unattainable, know, Oprah Winfrey and Gloria Steinem and, you know, women who are out there really speaking and giving me voice, right? Even though they had no idea I existed, it felt like they were, they could hear me, they knew who I was. And then they kind of reassured me that I had every right to be.

just the way I felt like I needed to be.

Michelle Glogovac (08:52.972)
And now growing up in Saudi Arabia, this was a time during when the Gulf War was starting and you mentioned how there wasn't TV per se and CNN started because we had US troops there. And then that was when you started to get to watch Oprah. These were not normal things that if you lived in the US, these are things we grew up with. We knew who they were, but you didn't until this was all accessible to you.

on top of your visits to the United States.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (09:25.039)
Right, yes, very much so. So growing up, none of that was like the norm on TV. We had two Saudi channels. They were very conservative channels. One was in English, one was in Arabic, and we would see the news or cartoons or even on occasion when we watched US shows, they were very edited. So a show that would last an hour here probably lasted 20 minutes there because it was so edited. would cut off anything that

you know, if women were wearing a miniskirt or if there was any kiss or any affection between, that was all edited out. And that's how I watched Full House. It was extremely edited, right? I had no idea how these teenage girls really lived once DJ and Stephanie became, you know, teenage girls. So when they were little, the show was not very edited. As they became older, it was very edited. So that was really interesting. But during the Gulf War, that's when those satellites showed up a lot more. That's when we were all fixated on CNN because we needed to have the news.

Michelle Glogovac (10:02.605)
Hahaha

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (10:18.169)
And through that, obviously, because the US troops were also there, they had access to a lot of that stuff. And so we could kind of pull off from it. And every single house almost in Saudi Arabia ended up having these satellite dishes that could pull shows from all over the world. And so we started to see more and more of that. And Jay Leno was one of those shows that I loved watching because I was like, you know, it's fun to listen to the news, the truth in kind of this humorous, sarcastic way. so.

He was a show that was definitely shown at the time, because I know the US troops loved watching it as well. so, yeah, so having that exposure then kind of gave me permission to, nowadays it's the internet, right? But back then it was just like these little moments of like, like I'm thinking about this. This is really interesting to me. But then also keeping it very, very kind of close to my heart, because if you talked about it, then my biggest fear was it would be exposed.

that people would know it had influence on me or on anyone else like me, and then it would be taken away from me. And so it was just like this subtle, you know, connection that I kept very, very private.

Michelle Glogovac (11:24.174)
And then you, so it's interesting because throughout the book you're saying that, know, girls growing up, their whole goal was, I'm going to get married. like, this is what the goal is. You're going to get married and have a family and you really rebelled against that. But then ultimately you found someone you're like, okay, well, we're going to get married too. bring us into that. Like, what was that shift for you?

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (11:44.592)
right.

Michelle Glogovac (11:50.566)
which I think it was a needed shift because it brought you into influencing, you know, coming to America and getting to see what's over here too. But what was that all like?

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (12:02.359)
Yeah, so my parents definitely were not the kind of parents that said these girls are going to get married fresh out of high school and, you know, go and live a traditional life. They did not have that mentality at all. But most of the girls around us, you know, grew up and I say us, meaning my sister and I grew up, you know, having kind of that aspiration. Right in high school, you're hoping to be noticed. You're hoping. And when I say be noticed, not by a guy, by the mother of a guy, because it's still extremely segregated at this time when we were growing up. And so that was the whole goal. Right. I'm going to become a mother. I'm going to become a wife.

well, not in that order, I'm gonna become a wife, then I'm gonna become a mother and have this kind of traditional life. For me, that wasn't anything that I was aspiring for, but I wanted independence and freedom and I wanted to be able to travel because living under my parents and in my parents' home and with an older brother, I didn't have any of those freedoms. It's not like, hey, bye, I'm gonna go on a trip, but I wanted to see the world, I wanted to travel. And I also knew that my dad was absolutely immovable on the...

fact that I was going to marry a Saudi man, stay in Saudi Arabia, just have kind of a normal, traditional, modern traditional life. And just the idea of that always made me feel, you know, helpless and hopeless. And so I thought, well, if I have to marry a Saudi man, I'm gonna have to find this man so that I can feel like we have to some extent an alignment, whether he's, you know, mixed like me or, you know, has aspirations.

to live a more modern life and not a traditional life. And I did, I met this young man who was born in the US, lived most of his life in the US to Saudi parents. His dad was in the UN and so that's how their life was established in the US. And so when I met him, we were both teenagers and he had just come back. And so he was still filled with all of these ideas, very Western ideas.

And so we were very young, like I said, teenagers, and we thought, OK, like if we get married, then we can have that life that we both want and still pleasing our parents being married to Saudi partners. So that's how I came about. And the sooner the better. So I got married at 19 because I was ready to travel and do the thing as a girlfriend and boyfriend or as fiancees. You can't. It's extremely segregated, very traditional, very conservative. And we had to be legally bound so that we can adventure together.

Michelle Glogovac (14:20.334)
And then I feel like, right, right. I was going to say, feel like somewhere along the line, he had some ideas where he's like, no, we're going to be more traditional. And you said, no, that's not going to happen. And I loved when you put your foot down.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (14:20.495)
And that marriage didn't last. I'm just going to preface that marriage didn't last.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (14:34.883)
Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately, you know, the longer he stayed there and started working there and starting making friends there and having more of an adult community, the more he felt, you know, some kind of connection. His his, his personal growth and his social growth was, I mean, I guess he was making up for time he lost not growing up there, right. And then his

His parents were fairly traditional, even though fairly open-minded, but then the idea of like, when are you going to have the grand babies and just the expectant. And he was their only son. He had sisters, but the only son, right? And so the son has to be this important figure for the family. And so I could tell that we were starting to completely veer off of our original plan, what brought us together and just the aspiration of what I imagined my life to be. And so I knew that that marriage had to end. in fact, the...

that sandstorm is both a metaphor, the title of book, The Last Sandstorm, is both a metaphor for my own trajectory once I left and escaped for good, but also that day that that marriage ended was literally in the midst of a sandstorm and how in that moment I was like, okay, I have to make that big drastic change now, not just a, I'm 19, I'm gonna marry this guy so that I can live my life. No, I really need to go for it and risk the biggest risk.

So yeah, those changes were becoming very prominent in our marriage. And I'm just glad that I, as young as I was and maybe as immature as I was, in my mind, I was like, I'm not having a child in this marriage. I'm not having a child in this marriage, you know, because that would have blocked me forever.

Michelle Glogovac (16:13.336)
Yeah. It was interesting. I interviewed Naz Mecknot who escaped Iran and her marriage was abusive and she literally had to like flee the country with, you know, different names and whatnot. Although you had different circumstances, you you had to get your father's permission then to flee and it was under the guise of, I'm going on vacation and I will show…

my cousin, the United States, you still had to get permission to leave, although your mother knew that this was a permanent thing. And this wasn't that long ago. I think people don't recognize or understand that we're not talking about 100 years ago. We're talking about recently. You know, you were a young woman.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (17:00.613)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Totally, all of these laws and all these rules changed in 2018, started to change in 2018. That's literally just yesterday. And I think people forget that. And people ask me all the time, why did you write this book? And I know for a lot of people, there's just a curiosity around it. I did not want to write the book as a voyeuristic book or as like a tell-all book. I wanted it to document a reality.

Michelle Glogovac (17:12.588)
Mm-hmm.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (17:27.035)
during a time in a place where the entire world knew nothing about. This was a very secluded and isolated part of the world, especially in the Arab world. And to date, a lot of changes are happening. We see this on TV all the time. Saudi Arabia is hosting this event and this other event and music shows and sports. that's great. Like all this openness and modernization and coming to the consensus of how the world functions, I guess, socially is great. I'm not opposed to that.

But I think that it's a little disingenuous to pretend like what happened in the past is behind us and does not need to be addressed. I'm not bringing it up to create hostility. I'm bringing it up to say, hey, not only have women come a little farther, it's important to know what they went through and how they struggled. And I think dismissing reality and historic occurrences is what gets us back in that rut again. If we don't remember what happened, what we came from, how it happened and why it happened.

in order to be able to say, OK, well, we're not going to that again. We're just going to keep progressing in the right direction. So that's one of the reasons I wrote the book. There's very little that's told from female perspective from that part of the world. And like you said, that wasn't a long time ago. This was literally just a few years ago that things slowly started to change. Women started driving in 2018. Now they're slowly having more autonomy and independence as far as not needing permission to do anything. But while I was there and until I was there and again up until recently,

Women needed permission for everything, know, opening a bank account, owning property, going to school, working. Like so many of those aspects of their personality require, or I'm sorry, their life from their own kind of personality required permission from their male guardian.

Michelle Glogovac (19:15.054)
And I'm sure that just because these ways have changed, it doesn't mean that every household has changed and caught up. I am sure that there are still who are backwards. Just as we see here in America, I don't think that it's any different. We have those who have progressed in those households who are on board with it. And then there's going to be some that just they can't change it and they won't change it.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (19:39.867)
Thank you for mentioning that because every time I do one of these talks or I'm on a podcast, we end up, we, I have the responsibility to make sure that I point that out and somehow either I failed to, or we just get carried away in the conversation. I really appreciate you bringing that up because, you know, I watch a lot of documentaries and I watch a lot of cult documentaries and.

I can't tell you how foundational the similarities are between all these cults and religious applications, modern religious applications in all the world. And when I see how sometimes some of those practices, even here in the United States and some of those most fundamental cults and where the man is everything and has to get permission to the woman, it's everywhere, it's all over the world. That, because of that notion,

It's really important to recognize that, especially in the part of the world that I come from, yeah, some changes have happened, social changes, maybe even legal changes have happened, and that's great, but there are still a lot of families that are 100 % committed to the way of life that was prior. Now, I will also say we have to be very careful not to criticize tradition because if for some this works, that's great. I'm not an anti-

traditionalist and I'm obviously progressive, but I do believe that in some ways of life, there's value to those traditions. That being said, as long as it doesn't infringe on women's rights and their autonomy and all that, that's where I, for me, it's problematic. And unfortunately, it's still deeply, deeply held this abuse of women's very existence. And it's extremely dangerous and it does happen. And we have not cracked the code on

on how to go about eliminating that with respect to culture and tradition, and at the same time also recognizing that it's time to move past that power dynamic. And we're seeing it now even today in the United States, the most powerful country in the world where we are still yet to elect a woman president. So those are the kinds of things that really feel very, very concerning to me because the ideology

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (21:51.427)
is so ingrained in our human species way of being.

Michelle Glogovac (21:57.696)
And I think it's very obvious that whatever we believe, we teach our children to believe as well. And I think this is the root of why we are not seeing more change because children are being taught that this is the way, this is okay, this is how we do it, grow up and do the same. And until everybody gets on board with change and welcoming the change,

don't know how we're going to see it. To me, this is why we have racism still exists because it's a learned belief. It is a learned action. Until somebody stops teaching it, how do you then change it?

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (22:41.485)
I agree 100%. I think teaching it absolutely is the reason why it keeps being passed down. I also think that going back to what I was saying earlier about understanding identity, I think it's also we lack the ability to validate experiences and to recognize how things were and to really dissect them, to really have an autopsy of what it was like, you know, when something is evolving or, you know, the hope is that it you don't perform an autopsy on something that's not dead, right?

And so if you are going to perform an autopsy, you need to make sure that that is done with. But you can't just say it's dead and then we bury it because if there's suspicion around how that death occurred, you want to know why. And when social norms change, there's always a reason why. It's not just all of a sudden we became enlightened and decided that way of being is not working for us and so let's change it. It's usually an evolution of some sort that caused that death or that change or that flip.

And so I think it's really important to do that. And we don't do that enough as humans. And that's why we never learn from our historic mistakes and we keep repeating them.

Michelle Glogovac (23:46.348)
I personally feel like what we've seen in the United States is we've gone backwards. We were becoming enlightened and now the light just shut down. How do we go forward and then backward and then make our way forward again, in your opinion?

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (24:02.051)
Yeah, so this is actually really interesting because when we look at history, especially those of us who are sociologists, you look at history and you see the evolution of society, right? It goes from one way to the other. And those changes happen based on what it is outside of us that is influencing what is happening to us. Right. And if you look at history and I, I, this is not something I claim to have made this analysis myself. I actually heard someone say this in some philosophy podcast or something a few years ago.

So historically the pendulum has swung always right to the left and to the right and to the left and to the right. And it goes back and forth, right? We go through either dark ages and enlightenment ages, or we go through conservative ways of being and then liberal ways of being. And that's sort of the norm, the binary of our evolution, because it influences how we move forward. Historically, this is what stunned me is that we are now living in a time where in recorded history, it's the first time we're seeing both of those extremes clashing at the same time.

So we are not on one side or the other. We're actually living in the storm of both clashing. That really struck me when I heard that, I was like, that's what's happening because we have both of those extremes so prominently locking horns and we are witnessing this kind of unraveling that we have absolutely no blueprint to know where to go from here. And so it remains a mystery. I have no idea what's gonna happen other than either we're gonna be pulled apart

further and further, or it's going to like, you when you hit two forces so hard that eventually they both break and then they kind of turn into something else, they disintegrate and turn into something else. One of those two things have to happen just based on physics, right? So right now, I think we're in the really tight locking horns phase and we're hitting it so hard and it remains to be seen. Unfortunately, I don't think that any expert out there that has done any research and people who are far more

you know, in the field for longer than I have, have answers. And it's, it's a little disheartening. Yeah. Yeah, it is.

Michelle Glogovac (26:01.262)
It's scary. Because when you put it that way, it's very scary to think of either what will happen if it implodes and it's remade, then what comes of it.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (26:10.609)
Yeah.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (26:16.303)
Well, I will say this because I'm an eternal optimist. I will say two things. Yes. No, I will say two things about that. First of all, I really believe in this young generation. Right now they are fairly lethargic and really tired and exhausted and understandable, but I do believe the best years are still ahead of them. They're going to blossom into these amazing thinkers and compassionate beings. And so I have a lot of hope in the young generation.

Michelle Glogovac (26:20.546)
Good, we need that.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (26:43.931)
But I also believe that much like any storm in nature and nature has shown us this volcanoes and hurricanes and all of that, when they happen, it's a pruning and never ever, ever has it not been a positive comeback after those storms. Never. mean, look at nature. There's always a way for it to regenerate and that's what's happening here as well. So socially, I'm not concerned that we're gonna go back to something super scary. Not at all. Like I don't even.

that thought doesn't even cross my mind. But I think the storm is gonna be really intense while we're living it. And we are living in it. We are in the eye of that storm or right at the cusp of that volcano erupting. But once that happens, think of how beautiful it's gonna be afterwards. We may not be here to see it, but that's okay. I hope so too. I hope so too.

Michelle Glogovac (27:22.477)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle Glogovac (27:26.548)
I hope so. No, I was just going to say, I hope I am here to see it. No, we can't, can't be in the eye of the storm for that long.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (27:35.417)
No, and everything is so rapid right now. I don't think it'll last that long. Like, I don't think it's going to be decades or centuries. I think it is a matter of years, but, you know, everything is moving so fast. And I believe this generation will be here to witness it.

Michelle Glogovac (27:50.988)
I love that we've got this high note. feel like this is where, okay, let's go from here. Yes, yes, we need the optimism and the hope and the joy. I think that we were all feeling it just a month ago. We were feeling that and we need to get back to that. So I'm glad that you're bringing that to this conversation and to the listeners, that there is hope.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (27:56.287)
We need this. Yeah.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (28:07.835)
Yeah.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (28:15.397)
Yeah, yeah, after being depressed for a couple of days, but now I'm ready. I'm ready to take it back. Yeah, take the optimism back. It is, I mean, and I know this for a fact from my own lived experience. I know that every single one of us has this to lean on. If we all, you know, lean into our experiences, we will see that we have a lot of resilience and we just often don't, you know, pat ourselves on the back and say, well done, way to go you, because we're...

Michelle Glogovac (28:18.944)
Yeah, exactly. Feel your feelings and then move on, right?

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (28:44.037)
consumed with either what pulls us down or we're such incredible cheerleaders for others. And that's obviously, I hope that that's more of us that's out there cheering others, which is important and necessary and fantastic. think we need to do it for ourselves a little bit more frequently.

Michelle Glogovac (29:00.33)
I agree. I love it. you are just a delight. I am so glad that we got to connect and that I read your story. It's amazing because I think we need to hear from more people. I always say we need more empathy, but we need to listen to what others have been through because whoever is listening right now, guaranteed, most likely you were not born in Saudi Arabia. You did not have to leave. You did not have to…

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (29:06.241)
Michelle Glogovac (29:27.726)
fight against these traditions to become who you are. So that's why I think it's so important for people to hear your story, to get to experience it through you so that they can have a better understanding of what others throughout the world are going through, to really help us all become more enlightened and evolved because we certainly need it. So thank you for sharing your story.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (29:51.599)
Of course, absolutely. I will say this. I often say while my story is unusual, it's not unique in its own kind of feelings. We all go through, you know, coming of age of some sort and we all through go through challenges in our lives that may feel or look like they are normal or there's nothing unusual about them, but we all have those struggles. So again, while my story is unusual, it is not unique to the human experience.

And so there is a common thread that ties us all together in how do we overcome our own obstacles, know, slay our own dragons and come the other way in service of the whole point of existence. Why are we here? Right. As hopefully to create this wave of empathy and kindness that, you know, we can share, you know, a blip of time in our human bodies and just enjoy it and make the best of it. So thank you for having me. Thank you for, you know, creating space for this.

I love that we had no idea where the conversation was gonna go, but I think in this time and age, I think more focus on the optimism of our own strength. And I will also say this, if I may, right now is the time for us to really calm down and find what unites us and what ties us as humans. Forget politics, forget religion, forget tradition, but as human beings,

Michelle Glogovac (31:11.694)
Mm-hmm.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (31:15.427)
If we can really start to find things that we have in common and focus on those, maybe we both love Ethiopian food, which I love Ethiopian food. That can be a starting point. Maybe we both love Legos and really have a brain that just wants to sit down and build puzzles. Whatever it is that ties us, we need to be looking more for that. Not like, that's a Trump supporter or that's a Harris supporter and immediately start dividing our existence. It's a sad, sad way of being if that's how.

we're thinking of moving forward in life. And so let's just celebrate what brings us together and have empathy and compassion for one another.

Michelle Glogovac (31:53.194)
I'd love that. Where can everyone find you and buy your book?

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (31:57.091)
Yes, so I do have a website. It's just my full name, no dash. It's jasminefalkdickerson.com. That's my website. I'm very active on Instagram. It's jasmine.falk.dickerson and that's on Instagram. And then my book is everywhere you would find a book. It's both ebook and hard copies or not hard copy, but paperback, like an actual copy. It's on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and anywhere you would find a book. So,

Yeah, please, you know, engage with me. I love hearing from folks when they read the book or listen to any of my talks. I love finding common ground. Just recently, someone wrote to me that has lived in Wyoming or spent time in Wyoming, and I've spent a lot of time in Wyoming my first 10 years in the US. And so that was a really cool connection. And they live now in Washington. So it was like, what? You know, this is a small world. So I love I love hearing from people. Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac (32:46.37)
How funny.

Michelle Glogovac (32:49.982)
I love it. Thank you so much, Jasmine. Thank you for coming on and sharing your story and all of your knowledge with us.

Jasmin Faulk-Dickerson (32:56.273)
Thank you, Michelle, for the wonderful work that you do. I appreciate it. And thank you for creating the platform for me to come join you.

Michelle Glogovac (33:02.296)
Thank you.