Michelle Glogovac (00:00.868)
Good morning, Amy. Thank you for taking the time to come join me. It's a chilly morning here, so I'm excited to have fun and chat and hopefully warm up.

Amy (00:02.787)
Hi, Michelle. Thank you for having me.

Amy (00:11.971)
Me too.

Michelle Glogovac (00:15.95)
Can you introduce yourself to everyone, please?

Amy (00:18.487)
I'm Amy Wilson. I am an author and my new book is called Happy to Help. It's my second book and I'm also the cohost of a podcast called What Fresh Hell Laughing in the Face of Motherhood that's been around since 2016. So this has been actually a really fun part of the book promotion, which not everybody loves, but I really do love the promotion and marketing and talking to people part and getting to be on podcasts as a guest has been a really fun change of pace.

Michelle Glogovac (00:46.562)
and you're a pro, which is so nice.

Amy (00:49.065)
Yeah, I guess I am a pro. You know, it's funny, you, you, I was listening to some of your, I was listening to some of your, earlier episodes and you talk about like this, nothing happens overnight that you build this, you build this body of work and you know, we've been doing Wellfresh Health for eight years, so long that we're pulling down some old episodes with terrible audio and revisiting some of the topics and eight years of research and interviews and

reading every parenting book out there, I've developed a real body of work, right? And I've become like an expert along the way, which has been really gratifying to sort of look back and realize.

Michelle Glogovac (01:25.721)
Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac (01:31.45)
It's absolutely crazy how much goes into it. You don't realize it until you sit down and really contemplate it. Because I rarely go back to episodes. today I released 257. And I'm like, that's a lot of content. And again, reading books, every book of every author that's come on, I've read cover to cover. It's just a lot. And why am I continuing with new episodes? I'm sure you feel the same way, but…

Amy (01:34.102)
Mm-hmm.

Amy (01:44.195)
Wow, that's great. It's a big deal.

Amy (01:52.055)
That's amazing.

Amy (01:56.341)
Yeah.

Yeah, but you know, it's fun and honestly like getting to interview authors and ask them whether it's a question about writing, if it's a personal memoir, or if it's just a, let me ask you just hypothetically, say you had a teenager who, you know, and you asking them the very thing that you most wanna know and you're getting to talk to the primary people in the field. It's pretty, it's a great privilege for sure.

Michelle Glogovac (02:25.89)
It absolutely is. I say this is my selfish thing. This is my guilty pleasure. I get to do it. I'm lucky. Let's talk about your book because you are a people pleaser. I read it. went, yes, this is me. Whether it's because we're moms or we're just who we are, I kind of think it's more who we are.

Amy (02:29.239)
Yeah.

Amy (02:33.269)
Okay.

Amy (02:39.574)
Yep.

Amy (02:47.339)
Yeah, I mean, I kind of think it's who we're assigned to be. That's sort of my axe to grind here that I think people pleaser is a term that is much more frequently applied to women than to men. And it's because something that it is something that we're told to be from very, very young ages over and over and over again. I think maybe some of us internalize that messaging more than others. But then it's who we're told to be. We fold it into our sense of self.

Michelle Glogovac (02:58.009)
Mm-hmm.

Amy (03:15.007)
as something that we are, whether or not that's really true. And then when your life gets to be too much and you ask for help, what you hear back is we need to stop being such a people pleaser all the time. Which may or may not be true, but it's not that helpful. So that's what the book's about.

Michelle Glogovac (03:28.94)
Mm-hmm. And I totally feel it. I don't know if you know, but I had a pulmonary embolism a few years ago. And after I got out of the hospital, there were specifically women, because men didn't say this. They were like, well, you do too much. But anyway, could you volunteer for this? was the, a second. Now, can you just do this? You should really cut back. But also, since you're doing this, can you just do this too?

Amy (03:35.595)
No, I didn't.

Amy (03:44.321)
Mm-hmm.

Wait. sweetie, you're so busy now. Right.

except for this one thing, right? Right, right. I mean, I think a lot of what certainly somebody like me who over shows up for every assignment, have I sometimes taken on things that were voluntary or that other people saw as voluntary. And I thought, well, then I guess it has to be me that gets my apartment building a stark composting or whatever. Yes. Have I done that? Sure. Have I taken on more than my share? Yes. Have I been?

And gone through times in my life when you have a pulmonary embolism as a perfect example, you're not a people pleaser. You're not overwhelmed. You don't like to make things harder than they need to be. you have a pulmonary embolism and you have to cut back. And at those times, your overwhelm is situational. It's not a personality flaw in yourself that has to be fixed first. But I think a lot of us get stuck there, no matter what the situation is that, if I just wasn't such a perfectionist, I could get over this pulmonary embolism.

more quickly. Right? I'm such an idiot. I think we kind of do that. And I don't think it's it's fair or useful.

Michelle Glogovac (04:50.926)
These blood clots would just dissolve on their own.

Michelle Glogovac (04:59.642)
So what do we do? Because I mean, you identify throughout the book and all of your essays, you're like, I acknowledge this, this is where I am. And I think a lot of us feel that way. How do we, as Emma Isaacs, I always quote her, sit on our hands more.

Amy (05:01.355)
Yeah, I mean, I think it's about.

Yeah.

Amy (05:14.571)
Yeah, you sit on your hands more because it is up to you because honestly, you the truth is people aren't going to stop asking you to do more than your share, right? Because you're good at it and because it works pretty well for everybody else and it always has. And so what I learned when the first thing you have to do is sort of reject this idea that there's something wrong with you. Like, okay, that's a situation that needs to change. It's not my personal failings. Let me just figure out how to...

to hand some of these things over or put some of these things down. Because the other hard part is sometimes nobody picks it up. Sometimes nobody wants to take over the building's composting drive if you say you can't do it anymore, right? And sometimes it's higher stakes things than that. And that still doesn't mean that you can't put them down. I think I got a little bit stuck on who will take this from me? And nobody does. Or you ask and they think you don't really mean it.

Michelle Glogovac (06:04.932)
Mm-hmm.

Amy (06:11.011)
you know, or they, or you ask for help and they say, just give me a list. It's, it's not one and done. You have to sort of redirect, I think the situations that are around you that you have probably been part of creating, but which work really well for everybody but you. And so you, it's, but it's situationally driven. Again, that's just what I come back to that you don't have to fix yourself first before you say somebody else has to take on the toy drive this year. You just have to say it and then you have to say it again.

Michelle Glogovac (06:39.738)
I love that. Let's go back to you and where you started. Share with everyone what you do, what you've done, because I read your bio and I'm like, you've done so much.

Amy (06:43.382)
Okay.

Amy (06:50.851)
It's wandered in and it's funny because I'm glad you said that because I see other people who have done interesting things in different parts of their life and think like, that's so cool. Like, of course they do this. Sandra Boynton comes to mind, you know, she does those greeting cards with the barn animals on them. And she wrote the kids books that everybody's got four or five of those kid books around. And she also writes music for kids. And she gets like Bruce Springsteen to help because she's Sandra Boynton.

Michelle Glogovac (07:20.026)
Cause she can, yeah.

Amy (07:20.937)
And her children's music is really good. And I look at that like, of course it is, because she's talented. So of course she'd be talented. But I don't always extend that grace to myself that I did this for a while, and then I pivoted, and I did that for a while, and then I pivoted. These are things to be proud of. And once you get to be a woman of a certain age, you do have a body of work. So to answer your question, the first thing I did out of school was I was comedian in college. I did improv. And when I first got out of school,

I was in a touring improv group and then I was in a sketch comedy group that got a really huge break. NBC signed us to a big contract and we were supposed to be on maybe after Saturday Night Live or maybe be a bargaining chip to replace Saturday Night Live. You know, we were, we were a cog in the system, but it was a huge break for me, paid off my student debt and learned a lot about showing up for myself, writing my own material and

That's something I've kind of carried with me, I think, to this day. Like, write the things that I want to say, whether it's on stage or on the page, because nobody else is going to, going to write for you or know what you would say. They'll think they know, but they don't know. I did some sitcoms for a while. I was a series regular on two sitcoms, which was a very, very cool experience. This is a while ago. This is like, Friends was still on the air. This is how long ago it was.

Michelle Glogovac (08:48.634)
but I still feel like it's still on the air. I don't feel like I watched that final episode.

Amy (08:50.211)
It is still right. is still on the air. Yeah, I was actually on a show. I was on a show every week that was on right after Friends. We had a huge lead in that was about as good as it got as a lead in. But it didn't work that well. was the turned out to be the half hour between Friends and Seinfeld when everybody walked the dog or something because they weren't watching our show. So it only lasted a year and a half. And I loved doing all that. But I always knew I wanted to be a parent. And so when I had my first kid,

And then my second child in pretty close succession, I knew that I was stepping off and it might not be the same once I took a couple years off from that rat race. And indeed it wasn't. But that was okay with me. then parenting wanted me different ways. And then I started doing a podcast because I really missed being creative and the acting thing was sort of away without me. And I had written my first book, which went well. And then the second book,

pitched an idea, it didn't go. I wrote a novel, it wasn't good. I didn't know what to do, but I wanted to be creative. And I missed the collaborative part of being on stage and being in a comedy group. I didn't really want to be alone in my next creative thing. So that's how I started doing the podcast with my friend Margaret Abels. And that led me to back to writing a second book many years later. So it's funny how that happens.

Michelle Glogovac (10:16.91)
podcast is huge. 10 million downloads? that what you're at?

Amy (10:18.711)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is, and we'd spent around for a while and we're really proud of it. And it really took off, I think, during the pandemic, the moment that, which I think is when you started kind of 2018? Yeah, I think we both started at the right time. Yeah, we both started at the right time for podcasts in terms of you can put a stake in the ground and people could find you a little more easily, I think, than now.

Michelle Glogovac (10:33.242)
I started in 2018 before, yeah, before the pandemic.

Amy (10:45.719)
But then sticking it out during the pandemic, was a moment where both of us thought like, can't like talk about what's happening in our own lives right now. And of course that was exactly what people wanted. It really grew our audience to just kind of talk week after week. And we did more than hand wringing. We tried to be really useful. Okay, like what is a really easy game you can set up for five and under to play inside? We'd talk about that. And we'd also talk about how we were feeling.

And that really grew our audience and connected us with those people.

Michelle Glogovac (11:19.106)
And then I stalked you some more and I saw that you also started a network. And I was like, let's talk about that too.

Amy (11:22.635)
Yes, right. Yeah. And then, yeah, yeah. So I have an ad network called Adalyst Media. And I started it again with my co-host, Margaret Abels, because we were selling our own ads for what Fresh Hell still do. But we were just selling them for our own show. And we're really proud of that. And people would come to us and say, we'll, you know, we'll acquire you when we think we can make you this much in advertising over a year. And we'd say, like, we're making more than that ourselves now and keeping all the money because we had

You know, so I think so many, in so many ways we're told that content for women and maybe content for moms in particular is just this sort of like bottom shelf thing that is definitely not interesting to anybody not, you know, engage very specifically in those interests. But when it comes to advertising, it's a very, very powerful demographic. The moms in the household do all the buying. So we always sold our own ads very well and realized

gee, maybe we could do this for other shows too. So now we have about 25 shows in our network and they all have, they're not all female hosts and they're not all parenting podcasts, but they all have a vast majority of women as the audience. The listenership is primarily female. And so we mainly are sponsor, advertiser facing. And if you want to reach females and moms, we have a sort of one-stop shop for that. And it's worked very well.

Michelle Glogovac (12:49.658)
It's amazing. I looked at it. I was like, my downloads aren't that high, so I'll just learn from you.

Amy (12:51.331)
And then there's other ways to, mean, of course, yeah, the podcasting, there's so many ways to monetize it. If you don't know if downloads for the ads to be worth the work, because it is a little bit of work, but you're using it as a driver for your brand or your workshops or your books or whatever it is, I think it's a great tool.

Michelle Glogovac (13:14.426)
love it. There's no other way for me. just, don't know why you wouldn't, you know, whether it's guesting or hosting a show, I absolutely love it. And it's work that is work, but it's enjoyable to be able to sit here and chat with you, learn about you after I've read your book. Like what a treat. And to commiserate on our people pleasing habits.

Amy (13:19.116)
huh. Yeah.

Amy (13:26.561)
Yeah, it's enjoyable.

Amy (13:36.227)
Right, that. Yeah, I think people pleasing, guess, like I get irked by the term sometimes because it just sounds like somebody who can't get out of first gear, right? She can't even leave the house because her mascara isn't perfect. Or she can't ever achieve anything of her own because all she cares about is other people. And, you know, like when I list for you, like, yeah, I've done all these different things, you've done all these different things, women can be very accomplished.

and very confident and extremely capable and still be, I think, of beset by these ideas that we should be doing more or we should be doing other things instead.

Michelle Glogovac (14:16.762)
Just the opening part got me where you're getting on the bus with the kids and you're like, is anyone going to offer to help me? Well, no, because I'm so capable. They're all just like, wow, look at you. You're amazing. I totally… No, I'm sure that they did. I'm sure they did because I was there. My kids are a year and three weeks apart. And my son didn't walk till he was 18 months. So I literally had two in my arms or I'd strap my daughter on me and he's…

Amy (14:25.473)
Right.

Amy (14:30.335)
Right in my head, in my head, they're saying that they weren't paying any attention. Right.

Michelle Glogovac (14:46.772)
somewhere else and you're just you're managing these kids.

Amy (14:50.463)
Yeah, so capably nobody would ever say, here, me, why don't you sit down and why don't you, right? Let me hold his hand like, yeah, let me help you. Cause you don't seem like somebody who needs help. Right, right. And so that's how this compounds upon itself.

Michelle Glogovac (14:56.472)
Yeah, let me help you.

Michelle Glogovac (15:02.179)
Right.

And I feel like maybe if we pay more attention to other people, like offer to help because, what is it? There's a quote, there's something about, you know, we don't check in with the most capable people. And I think that's been really said over and over, especially in the past month when people seem like they have it all together. And yet those are the ones that behind closed doors are like, shit, this isn't, things are not going well. Yet I'm checking on everyone else.

Amy (15:11.19)
Right.

Amy (15:18.306)
Yes.

Amy (15:29.889)
Right, right. Things are not going well. Yeah, yeah, everybody's got their something, right? I mean, I've certainly learned that and that really rang true in a whole new way because of the pandemic too. In each house, people were struggling with something, even if it was inconvenience more than fear. We were all struggling.

Michelle Glogovac (15:49.006)
Yeah, which is amazing because it's been now so many years and yet looking back, it's crazy what we all did.

Amy (15:59.447)
What we all did, right. We did it all because it's what the moment required. Again, we all took on more than our share and somehow managed and it's not because we're people pleasers, it's because schools were closed and so was our office and we were told we had to stay home. We were all doing our best and our best was pretty good.

Michelle Glogovac (16:12.044)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, my son was just starting kindergarten. So it went from, we're going to have two kids gone because we'll put the other one in preschool to, wait, now we have to homeschool them. That was not part of the plan.

Amy (16:26.409)
Right. I did not sign up for this. I did not sign up for being in the same room with my parenting partner 24 seven either. Right. That was that was a new whole other stress.

Michelle Glogovac (16:34.092)
Well, we actually are. That part was normal for us because we both work from home and we've worked from home for over a decade. So that part I'm like, this is normal. But we expected to put the children, you know, yeah, move.

Amy (16:38.815)
there you go.

Amy (16:45.047)
but throw homeschooled kids, Zoom school kids, our listeners always hastened to our listeners who homeschool their kids like that wasn't homeschooling. Like, okay, Touche, you're right. That's not homeschooling, but it was sure hard.

Michelle Glogovac (16:58.904)
Yeah, yes. Well, in kindergarten, I think that kind of was homeschooling.

Amy (17:03.971)
It was Zoom schooling or Legos.

Michelle Glogovac (17:07.906)
Yeah, right, right. So what brought you to this point to write this book about people pleasing in this moment and then for the Zibi team to pick it up?

Amy (17:18.531)
It was actually picked up from a proposal and it was something that I had actually talked to Zibi about. She had read my first book which was called When Did I Get Like This? She said, you why don't you write a proposal for me for a nonfiction book because sometimes nonfiction books can sell on the proposal. You don't have to write the whole manuscript first. I had a manuscript, I mean a proposal.

Michelle Glogovac (17:39.096)
Right. Yep.

Amy (17:46.515)
sort of sitting in a drawer that was parenting driven, hadn't sold. And so I could have shown them that, but I didn't, I thought, don't want to do parenting, I want to like widen the lens a little bit and write a book that appeals to primarily women readers, but they don't have to be parents because I think the things we struggle with are more universal than that. And Zibi and I had talked about this idea of

Slack, which is still in the book a little bit, but it's just, it's an interesting story about how far a book can, can drift from where it starts. the idea would be Slack as an organizing principle and it would be, ways you give other people Slack, ways you, give yourself Slack and ways you have to pick up the Slack. Okay. So I said, okay, I'm going to start there.

And so I just started whiteboarding out one of the times in my life that, you know, I could talk about having done each of these things. And no matter how much I thought after a couple of weeks, there was one column that was still had nothing in it. And it was times I really needed to pick up the slack that I hadn't done enough that I hadn't tried hard enough. I just couldn't think of anything that went in that column. And I realized that it was in fact the opposite. That was true. That there were many times that I could have, you know, slacked off or given myself slack, but I, I didn't. And it was that sort of.

blank space that I thought, that's what the book is about. What happens when you're somebody who over delivers no matter what.

Michelle Glogovac (19:14.584)
And what was that like to recognize that all of a sudden? Because it sounds like it was surprising to you that you're like, I've never slacked off. Huh.

Amy (19:21.631)
It's the most, it's the best feeling in the world, you know, when you're like, when you're looking at something and looking at something and then it just drops like, that's what the book is about, right? Or how I'm gonna end this essay. And then you're out for a walk and it just falls into your head. I'm not saying it's easy or it happens every day, but when it does, that's the best feeling in the world. When you that's it, that's the answer. Or that's the title, happy to help. went.

We went around and around about the title of this book and in the end, happy to help. Of course, that's the title and it was there the whole time.

Michelle Glogovac (19:55.258)
But did you recognize before whiteboarding it that you truly have never slacked, that this was part of who you are?

Amy (20:03.093)
Yeah, I did. Like, yeah, an over-deliverer. yeah, my first book was about the early years of parenting, which are not in this book. sort of, by accident, and then on purpose, excised my kid's age's birth to seven, except from that one little anecdote in the beginning, because I talked about it already in the other book. And the other book is more about how, yes, I'm a doobie, I'm a girl scout, I get things done, I just work harder until I succeed. That's what I do. And parenting was the first...

thing I did in my life where that didn't apply from trying to get pregnant to being pregnant to the birth plan. every, no, I tried to sort of lock down and make everything work the way it was supposed to. And then of course it went all kinds of different ways. And, and, and I would keep telling myself, I'm not going to do that this time. I'm not going to overthink it. I'm not going to overplan it. And then I would the next thing. So yes, this was something I definitely knew about myself. but I think I got,

Lessened that book into and here's why it's a problem. And here's what happens when you admit that it's a problem for yourself That you can't handle the two kids sick because you're also sick, you know, and what happens then that it's It's funny, but it's also hard and serious and then I also went through some more serious Challenges in my life that I think it was like sometimes this isn't so funny. Sometimes it's funny Sometimes it's not so funny and I want to talk about all of it

Michelle Glogovac (21:31.694)
Yeah, as you mentioned the birth plan stuff, I'm like, we are really cut from the same mold.

Amy (21:36.867)
But you're told to like, know, you're told to create a birth plan. I mean, the problem was with me with parenting experts, didn't, I listened to all of them, right? So like you're a bad person if you do have a birth plan and if you don't. So I created a birth plan because I read everything saying I was supposed to. And then you get in the hospital room and they like roll their eyes at you or worse.

In the birth plan, I did realize like, okay, like I'm overthinking it. Everybody in this room really wants me to have a, you know, healthy, happy birth with a healthy baby at the end of it. We're all, got the same goal. I don't need to hand these people who do this all day, every day, four pages of, you know, typed instructions, but I did it.

But that doesn't mean that it goes that smoothly for everybody or that being a well-informed person who is giving birth is not a really good way to be. You know what I mean? It's like, stop being such a dumb-dumb. It's not always, it's not the answer to everything.

Michelle Glogovac (22:40.536)
Yeah, my plan originally was like, I don't want drugs. And then my OB was out of town and I saw a sub and he was like, you should really take whatever drugs they're going to give you. And I went, okay, new plan. I will take all the drugs, but I will not have a C-section. So who do you think ended up with two C-sections back to Mac?

Amy (22:52.427)
Right.

Amy (22:57.123)
Right, right. And then I think you're left feeling really bad about that. And then I know people who I'm gonna labor naturally and then, you know, there's one intervention and then there's another intervention and all of a sudden they had a C-section. Like they go home feeling bad about themselves instead of how amazing, right? I have a new baby. I just hate that there's even 1 % of that, but I don't think that those women are making that up. I think that's these...

Michelle Glogovac (23:18.543)
Right.

Amy (23:26.037)
invitations to do everything better and perfect and harder. They're around us and some of us are apparently really good at ignoring all of them. I am not and so I internalize them but I'm not making them up.

Michelle Glogovac (23:40.346)
Do you think that social media plays a bigger role in this today versus before? It's funny because my kid said something, my son goes, you don't know how the internet works, mom. And I go, you know, I was around before the internet existed. I know how it works, nine-year-old little boy.

Amy (23:57.879)
Yep. Right. You may be a digital native, but I think it's totally harder because, I mean, my oldest child is almost 22 years old. So these stories that I told them that first book were more than 20 years ago. And so the way that I consumed content was message boards in the internet or TV shows or books. But all of those things I had to go find and engage with the content and then

put them away and then do something else. I didn't have a phone in my pocket that was guaranteed like Instagram knows you're pregnant and so every time you open Instagram it's gonna show you a whole lot of content about that whether or not you want it and I think that that must be very hard. If you're going to engage with social media, I love social media. I feel like it keeps me connected with a lot of people but it forces you to engage with

things in a way that we didn't have to do that 20 years ago.

Michelle Glogovac (25:01.444)
And as we're talking about people pleasing and social media, feel like us and our people pleasing, and I want to use quotes because I don't feel like it's total people pleasing, but we were forced to, as you said, do that extra work, take those extra steps. And now it's more that social media takes all of that work out of it for you to a certain extent because you can just tune into a podcast and listen to it. You can just scroll and find those answers. And so you don't have to people.

please as much per se because you're not doing the additional work.

Amy (25:34.091)
Yeah, except being, I think the definition of people pleasing is the most basic one is putting other people's wants and needs before your own. And I don't know a parent who doesn't do that, especially a mom. It's a job assignment, right? It's the assignment. And then when you open your phone, it's like how to yell less, how to do this, to feed them better, how to it. And then stop overthinking everything. Like, okay, it's really hard to do both. Really hard to do both of those things.

Michelle Glogovac (25:45.626)
That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Michelle Glogovac (25:59.576)
Yeah, definitely. Yes. And it's funny because we do see more of those. I feel like there's that perfectionism too on the social media aspect of all of these influencers and there's a whole group of the moms that are like, they're dressed perfectly and their makeup's done perfectly and you're like, but it's six in the morning. Yes.

Amy (26:11.436)
Yeah.

Amy (26:19.401)
Right, like, trad wives or whatever, right? And you can watch that stuff ironically. can, yeah, like, don't, I don't, can you believe these ridiculous people? But of course, there's some small part of your brains, like, how does she look like that, that early in the morning, right? How does she manage to do that? That I think is hard to, hard to put aside, even when we think we are.

Michelle Glogovac (26:33.686)
Yes!

Michelle Glogovac (26:43.522)
Yeah, but I know that for a fact I will never be that, I'll never be a trad wife to begin with, but I will never be fully make-up'd by five or six in the morning. What you see is what you get right now.

Amy (26:49.505)
Yeah.

Amy (26:53.473)
Right, right. And it's a job, but yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, I guess it's like resisting because of course when you're promoting a book, you are creating content that's to promote the book and you're supposed to be more online and have a sub stack and not that anybody's.

Not that any one person is telling me to do that. It's again, social media. Like if you're an author and you don't have a mailing list, what's wrong with you, right? And so you can, it's the perfect storm to fall into. I'm doing everything I can. I'm overwhelmed and it's not nearly enough.

Michelle Glogovac (27:22.106)
Right.

Michelle Glogovac (27:29.412)
Yeah, it's never enough.

Amy (27:31.073)
never enough. accept that there's a personal cam ban is a sort of productivity method I talk about in this book. And in that book, he talks about the author talks about how it should be so simple that we have more things to do than we have time to do them. That is just a simple, obvious truth for most of us. And it should be obvious, but it isn't. And so we need to engage with our inability to do everything we set out to do.

instead of if we just work harder, care more, care less, whatever, we'll get more done.

Michelle Glogovac (28:06.97)
I'm so glad you just brought that up because it was in my mental note to bring up the, can only do three things at one time. And I loved it because in my brain I went, my gosh, I need to implement this. And I've got all the post-its. Of course I went down that path of I should be doing this because I will write down things that then get transferred to the next day and they get transferred to the next day because we can't fit them all in.

Amy (28:14.709)
Yes.

Amy (28:23.586)
Right.

Amy (28:30.435)
You can't, right. And it doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't mean you need to get up earlier or work harder, right. needs, you kind of need to, Oliver Berkman calls it engaging with your own finitude. And so this personal Kanban thing is, yeah, you engage with your, like, here are all the things I could be doing. You list them all out, which anybody listening probably has that somewhere.

And then you just pick three and you write them on Post-It notes. Get out of the to-do list, doc, and just write them on Post-It notes and they're there. And you have to do those three things next. And you can't move anything else onto the list of three things until something else has come off. It is hard. It is hard to do. And yet when you really get that granular about it, I find I get the thing done. I write, email the dentist on that Post-It note and I don't want to do it, but it's one of those three things. So it's what comes next.

Michelle Glogovac (29:21.176)
Yes, I love that. I'm the same way. That's exactly how my list looks. It's the most mundane, but I know I have to get it done and so it goes down. So I love that. I want to implement. There should be a color coding system and everything.

Amy (29:25.087)
Right.

Amy (29:30.359)
Right. Yeah.

Amy (29:37.995)
Right, I do, yeah, that's me. I have a color for the book and a color for the podcast and a color for the kids and yep, I do.

Michelle Glogovac (29:45.082)
I love it. That's how my calendar looks too.

Amy (29:47.083)
Yeah, it's fun. You might've have a pretty calendar if it's going to run your life.

Michelle Glogovac (29:50.7)
Exactly. And everybody gets a color and you know what to expect and it's perfect. you make me feel much better about myself, Amy. Thank you.

Amy (29:52.579)
Right. Right. We are the doers. I'm here. I speak for the doers among us.

Michelle Glogovac (30:05.636)
I love it. Can you share with everyone where to get your book and how to follow you, how to listen to the podcast?

Amy (30:11.351)
Well, amywilson.com has links to buy the book, is called Happy to Help Adventures of a People Pleaser. You can get it wherever you buy books, but amywilson.com has links to Amazon and Barnes and Noble and Bookshop. My podcast is called What Fresh Hell, Laughing in the Face of Motherhood. You can go to whatfreshhellpodcast.com or just search What Fresh Hell wherever you listen to podcasts.

Michelle Glogovac (30:34.89)
Awesome, thank you so much and congratulations.

Amy (30:37.623)
Thank you. Thanks Michelle, I really appreciate it.