Michelle Glogovac (00:00.852) Hello ladies. this is the first time I have two guests at the same time. So I'm super stoked and my eyes are going to go like this because I'm looking at both of you. Yue (00:09.09) haha Julie (00:10.145) It's a party in here. Love it. At least on the pod, yeah. Yue (00:12.238) It's a threesome. It's your first threesome. I don't know if it's your first threesome, Michelle, but first virtual threesome, maybe. Michelle Glogovac (00:16.598) It is, it is on, it is on all accounts, my first threesome, so yes. Julie (00:24.033) We're here to pop your cherry. We're happy. Yue (00:24.258) Okay, good, good, good. We feel very special. Michelle Glogovac (00:29.911) And now my husband's going be so sad that he is not home for this interview. This has already taken a turn. My listeners are like, what is going on today? Julie (00:32.097) you Yue (00:34.614) Right? Julie (00:34.785) You Yue (00:41.206) Elise is recorded for him. He can always watch a playback. Julie (00:44.321) It's true. It's true. Michelle Glogovac (00:48.115) You want to introduce yourselves? Yue (00:49.838) I I mean at this point, should we use different names? Should we be anonymous? I'm Yue Xu. Julie (00:52.085) Do we need an intro? Yeah. And I'm Julie Krafchick. And we're. Yes. Yes. And authors of How to Be Dateable. Yay. Michelle Glogovac (00:57.419) You Michelle Glogovac (01:02.026) the host of the Datable podcast. Yue (01:02.21) And we're from, yes, we're from Datable. Michelle Glogovac (01:07.872) I have mine here, which I read, I shared with you both. I read it in the orthodontist's office with my husband and my children and my kids are wondering what's going on with mommy and daddy. Yue (01:09.035) Yay! Julie (01:13.485) my God. Yue (01:15.008) Hilarious. Yup. Julie (01:19.103) We were loving all of your social posts. Like you were writing reviews saying that you wished you had this 20 years ago. It just made my heart melt reading those. Michelle Glogovac (01:27.082) I do. Twenty years ago, we didn't even have Tinder, whatever. I don't even know what the names are, but I remember sitting with a coworker for lunch. He was newly divorced and he's like, yeah, so I'm like swiping left and right. I go, don't know, what language are we speaking? What are you swiping on? What is going on? He's like, well, it's this dating app and you swipe and you do this. like, I have no idea, my friend. I have been out of the dating scene for so long. This is all foreign. Julie (01:42.635) Ha ha ha. Yue (01:43.371) I know, right? Yue (01:51.032) haha Michelle Glogovac (01:56.022) I wish that I had your book for so many reasons, not for the swiping in the left and the right, but I feel like there's so much in it that talks about us individually and how much, especially in our 20s, like what the hell do we know? We don't know a lot and we won't admit it until we're in our like 30s, 40s, especially the 40s, that I'm like, man, if I only knew then, I would love to go back to the 20s with the brain that I have now. Yue (02:06.786) Mm-hmm. Yue (02:11.126) No. Julie (02:22.081) Hmm. Yue (02:24.46) I know, I know. And that's kind of why we were inspired to write this book because it's almost like, like in some ways, obviously it's to help all the daters out there, but in other ways it's for us to speak to our younger selves. Like the things we wish we knew. And so we can help that next generation of daters. Michelle Glogovac (02:44.832) Maybe I need to gift this to my stepdaughter for Christmas, but she's got a new boyfriend, so I don't know how that would go over. Yue (02:48.088) Ha ha ha! Julie (02:53.191) Audio or Kindle. Make it more discreet. Yue (02:59.114) Maybe gift it to the boyfriend. Michelle Glogovac (02:59.562) love it. I'll do the boyfriend, the stepdaughter and my stepson. I'll do all three. Julie (03:03.573) That would not go over well. All three of them, you know, we actually believe that like being dateable doesn't stop when you're in a relationship. So you could spin it that way. You know, you always have to date your partner. You always have to be dateable. So yeah, it's not a reserve all for single only. Yue (03:08.482) There you go. Michelle Glogovac (03:23.676) I love that. That's good. Julie, that's good stuff. Yeah. I'm like, yes, we're going to – that's going to be a clip, it's going to be a graphic. That is genius. Let's talk about how you two got together as podcast hosts, as friends, because one of the best parts of the book is that in the acknowledgments, you are the longest relationship the two of you have had, right? Julie (03:27.413) Yeah, put that on the card. Yue (03:29.39) Put that on the car. Julie (03:38.878) Mmm. Yue (03:46.307) We are. Julie (03:47.233) We are 10 years as the podcast, but we've been friends for what 12 or 13? Yeah. Yue (03:54.318) 10 years. I feel like 11, maybe a lot going on 11 years that we've been friends. And then we started the podcast shortly after we became friends and we got together because we had a mutual friend who happens to be a matchmaker who matched us. Not, you know, obviously not as a couple, but she, she's very good at matching friends. And as soon as Julie and I met, we just couldn't stop talking. Like we just, not just about life, but really about dating. And I had just moved to this new city in San Francisco, and Julie and I were just sharing kind of our stories. And both of us concluded that we didn't know what was going on with modern dating. Nobody had it figured out. And we wanted to gather more stories and learnings from everybody out there dating in the field. Julie (04:44.417) I mean, it literally started, we were out at a bar one night with two of our friends and we were just talking about dating and dating stories. And something sparked this idea. We were just like, we should start a podcast. And this was in 2016 when podcasts weren't as abundant as now. Serial was like really just like coming out and you know, we got equipment, UA had equipment from doing like video in the past. We were like editing an iMovie. We had no idea what we were doing. No idea. Yue (05:12.651) No idea. Julie (05:13.915) And we just interviewed friends and heard their stories. And I think it was actually really important that it started out that way of just getting a pulse of like what people were going through because we would not have been able to write the book today had we not done that like research, I guess, and talk to thousands of daters and heard their perspectives and their struggles and their triumphs and the magic that comes from dating, like the whole gamut, we would not have been able to you know, synthesize and like see what are kind of the larger issues with modern dating and then how do you make it work for you? Michelle Glogovac (05:51.35) So what would you say the largest issue with modern dating is? Yue (05:55.48) I think the largest issue is that people are so focused on being good at dating that they forget to get good at connecting, which is ultimately what we're looking for. I think we're so wrapped up in the game of dating and in the culture of dating, we forget the end goal, which is for most people we spoke to is to seek deeper connections with someone and to feel. seen and heard with someone, to be your most authentic self with someone. But for all of those things to happen, you don't need to be good at dating to accomplish that. Julie (06:32.577) and the culture. Michelle Glogovac (06:32.724) I feel like that translates to friendship too, like to everything in life, especially right now. So this is a friendship book too, you guys. Yue (06:35.829) yes. Yes. It is. Julie (06:36.402) totally. It's, think this disposable dating culture too, because of apps. I'm pro app. I met my partner on an app that I've been with for over three years. So I think they absolutely can help you meet people, but there's a lot of stuff. I mean, think about like anytime on the internet, people will just kind of get nasty on the internet because it's anonymous. You you can say and do whatever you want. Like I always think of Yue (07:01.442) Mm-hmm. Julie (07:06.881) You know, we had this guest that was a friend of UA's that came on and she was talking about like how in every other part of life, she is a go-getter, she is on it, like she gets a business contact, she's gonna make the plan, set it up with friends that way. But then in dating, because like everyone else is kind of lukewarm and doing bad dating behavior, she kind of starts to succumb to the lowest common denominator is what she called it. It's like if everyone else is acting in this way, I'm gonna do the same. So I'm gonna start ghosting because other people are ghosting me. And we were like, that is what's wrong with dating right now is that everyone feels like they need to act a certain way to date. But really, we've learned from dateable is it's actually the opposite. If you can push out of that and not be confined to how you're supposed to do it, that's when the magic happens. Michelle Glogovac (08:02.646) And that brings us to the example in the book of Yue where you found yourself doing these things where you were like, I don't know if we would say playing hard to get, but you weren't like returning the text in the right amount of time. And then when you were like, I really like you, the guy's like, what? Huh? That's not how you're acting. Julie (08:14.432) Yeah. Yue (08:18.648) Yeah. Julie (08:19.745) You Yue (08:22.902) Yeah, it's a very confusing culture of modern dating, because we talk about this phenomenon called relationship chicken, where it was like, we want to get into a relationship, but we do everything we can to show the least amount of interest, thinking that's what's going to elicit more interest. It doesn't make any sense. I used to think, if someone takes a few hours to text me back, I'm going to wait two days just to show them that I'm also equally as busy and unavailable, but why? Like in a relationship, if your partner texts you, you wouldn't be like, I'm gonna pretend I'm unavailable so that they like me more. No, you'd be like, I'm texting you back right away. So we do these things in dating. This goes back to why we think you don't need to be good at dating in order to be in a relationship. So we do all the opposite things. Like we don't do dating like we would do a relationship. Michelle Glogovac (09:19.178) I love it. I loved all of your examples. I loved the one gal who was doing all these coffee shop dates and it was like within five minutes she was done. I'm going, well, she couldn't even finish her cup of coffee. Like this makes no sense to me how you could order your coffee, sit down and be like, peace out. I got somewhere else to go. And then she meets the guy up again doing something else and then it's like sparks and I really do like you. You're nice. I was like, yeah. Yue (09:26.215) Yeah Julie (09:26.256) yes. Yue (09:29.268) Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Michelle Glogovac (09:45.542) Doug, you spent five minutes with him in the coffee shop and you didn't give him a chance. Julie (09:50.987) This is all based on true things we've heard. Like they're composite characters just for the book because, you know, we need to respect people's privacy and whatnot. But these are all based on real stories that we've gotten throughout our 10 years of doing dateable. So we had someone do a five minute date. That is a real thing. And this notion of like a date review, I'm just going to go on there and treat it like a job interview. That's something we hear all the time, like being either on the receiving end or not even realizing you're doing it. You're just like, I don't want to waste time. I don't want to waste time. I want to like make sure that, you know, I'm getting all the right info and trying to make sure I don't find any red flags. And of course, like the big red flags, we're not saying don't be aware of those, but what we find is the culture of people just so focused on every little ick and thing that someone does that's wrong. It just makes like no one viable to them. And that's not a good place to be either. Michelle Glogovac (10:49.662) It's like they should be doing more podcast interviews without pre-scripted questions. Just show up, have the conversation, and in 30 minutes or less, you would know if you like the person or not. Julie (10:54.493) Yeah. Date like a podcaster. Totally. Yue (10:56.876) Yeah. Yue (11:02.134) Well, I mean, that's a great point because in podcasting, we know we are driven by curiosity and we want to see where the conversation goes. There is a discovery process to that. And I think the art of discovery is sort of forgotten in dating. We come into a date already making up our mind and judgment about this person we're seeing because we have so much information about them. You you may have Google search them. You may have looked them up on LinkedIn. We have this Julie (11:07.553) Mm-hmm. Yue (11:30.222) preconceived notion of people already, but we forget to go through that discovery process of letting someone unfold before you. Michelle Glogovac (11:39.126) This could be a new thing. Julie (11:39.201) And we often, yeah, just get people on a podcast. Like that's the speed dating. I love it. Yeah. Yue (11:41.261) No Yue (11:45.838) Date like a podcaster. That's what we say. Michelle Glogovac (11:49.396) love it. Yes, I love it. And I have to say, I love my favorite little parts of the whole book were big, dateable energy. Yue (11:55.702) Yes, BDE baby. Julie (11:56.129) You know, I think that was something it's interesting because when before you and I started writing, we really thought about like, what do we want in this book? Like, you know, what are some of the areas that we think will make it like different and really showcase our personalities? And one of them was like this BDE section, because I think the point, I guess the feeling we want people to leave with is one hope. but then also like confidence that like they're already dateable. It's just modern dating and the way it's working today that's getting in their way. And then if they can, you know, be aware and remove those barriers, then like the love life they want is theirs. So the BDE or big dateable energy, it's really like there to kind of give you that little like reminder of like, you got this, you've got that energy, like you're already dateable. Michelle Glogovac (12:49.002) love it. I hope you have merch with that on it. Yeah. I have a shirt that says Big Mom Energy that I got from Mom's Demand Action for gun control. So I like to wear that. Julie (12:50.929) we have to. Yue (12:52.355) yes. Yue (13:00.034) That's great. So then we can give you a companion shirt that says BDE. And then your kids will be really confused then. Julie (13:05.321) Yeah. Yes. Michelle Glogovac (13:05.842) Yes! Michelle Glogovac (13:09.974) man, those poor little people, they're gonna need lots of therapy when they get older. Yeah. They can have big, dateable energy. Yeah. Siblings of big, dateable energy for their big brother and sister or something like that. Holy. Yeah. my God, could you imagine? That's hilarious. Yeah, we should totally do something like that. Let's talk about how you wrote the book because Yue (13:11.758) Yeah, start them now. Julie (13:14.763) We could get them a shirt too. Yeah. Yeah. If the whole family's wearing it, it's okay. Yue (13:26.456) whole family's BDE, yeah, no big deal. Show up to school. Julie (13:34.049) You could be our models. Yeah. Yue (13:38.946) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Michelle Glogovac (13:39.574) I've written a book, me, myself, and I, but writing together, how does that work? Julie (13:42.207) Yes. Yue (13:47.392) Yeah, we were wondering the same thing when we started. And our editor, she's wonderful. Our editor at Simon Element, which is an imprint at Simon & Schuster, she's basically, she's like, I've seen co-writers do in many different styles. You just have to find one that works for you. And it took us a little bit in the beginning to figure out what would work for us. Because you don't know, like we didn't know if our styles were mesh. We didn't know if it would sound coherent and Michelle Glogovac (13:50.934) Ha ha ha! Julie (14:08.054) Mm-hmm. Yue (14:16.824) consistent, but we were able to, after a few iterations, right, Julia, was saying quite a few iterations, get to a good point where we each had specific roles in how we contribute to the book. And that really worked out well, even like towards, you know, throughout the whole process, even through the whole like proofreading process as well. Julie (14:22.815) Yeah. Julie (14:40.693) Yeah, I think it definitely was came with its pros and cons like challenges, but then also overall, it made the book stronger for sure, because we had two people that we could gut check things against. I think it was just getting that rhythm down. Like you said, when we started off, we split the chapters and that did feel like it was really working. So we got into. Yue (15:02.606) because I'm very slow. That's why it was not working because I was so slow. I could not get words on paper. I just could not do it. Julie (15:09.461) Well, I think that was what we learned is like we had different strengths with it. I think you were really good, Yue, at making things a little more concise, because I could be wordy. So what we started to get into a rhythm of is like Yue would send over like an outline of like all her ideas for that specific chapter. I would go with that first draft and just get it down on paper because as you know, Michelle, it's like... The process of writing is basically rewriting until you have it down. I think also like for me, outlining is a strength of mine of just like thinking about like how the whole chapter will kind of like come together. So taking what UA's thoughts were in her like rough outline, putting it into a larger outline for the chapter, giving it that first pass, then it went to UA to add anything in to make it shorter, more concise, all that. And it was like a rinse and repeat a couple times. Yue (15:39.854) Mm. Michelle Glogovac (15:40.406) Mm-hmm. Julie (16:06.111) seem to work better for us than the split. Michelle Glogovac (16:09.45) And then you have like each chapter, it reminded me of mine too, because each chapter had a format to it. So like you have your big datable energy that's in there and you have, you know, sections of this and that and that's not what you called it. It wasn't this and that, but it was… But you had this format to all of it and I found that that made, for me, it was much easier to write once I knew this is the format and I'm going to need each of these pieces of each chapter included. Yue (16:14.52) Mm-hmm. Julie (16:14.844) Mm-hmm. Yue (16:23.335) Yeah, this and that. Bits and bobs. Julie (16:23.339) Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Julie (16:39.413) I think a big turning point too for us is so like the first part of our book chat like part one is all about the traps of modern dating. Like what are you fault? What I guess not are you falling for because you're a bad data, but just because of modern dating culture again, all this is no one's fault. It's just the way the culture is laid out. So we have four chapters that are the four traps of modern dating. So it's like, this is what's happening, but also there's some solutions in there. But then the part two is really like, okay, now that we know these traps, what are we gonna do about it? How are we gonna date different? What is the framework? And we were kind of struggling with these chapters. And then when we were together at South by Southwest, actually, we were like at this party, I still remember it. And we were just like brainstorm. We're like, okay, if we like can look back on our own journeys and all the people we talked to that were able to like get out of modern dating and finally have the relationship they wanted. Yue (17:23.864) Mm-hmm. Julie (17:35.797) What did they do? And from there, we were able to come up with like this, you know, four part or five part framework that we had that became each chapter for the second part. Yue (17:37.314) Mm-hmm. Yue (17:45.262) Mm-hmm. Michelle Glogovac (17:49.12) How long did it take you to write the full book? Julie (17:52.074) a year. Yue (17:52.206) A bit over a year. Yeah. Michelle Glogovac (17:54.112) Not bad. That's not bad at all. Yue (17:57.07) But the entire process was over two years. I mean, going from writing the book proposal and then even like proofreading and all of that rereading towards the end. But our book took many different formats. think it also, what you were talking about with structure with each chapter, I think it took us a little while to figure out the actual structure within each chapter, because we played around with several formats. Julie (17:57.279) Maybe a little longer. Michelle Glogovac (18:01.878) Rame. Yue (18:26.092) within those chapters too. So it is kind of like a, it's a living document the entire time. And it kind of took form towards the end when we really solidified, when we were at South By to like solidify exactly the kind of structure we wanted. Michelle Glogovac (18:43.594) And then what made you, I'm sorry, go ahead, Julie. Julie (18:43.679) It was, it was also interesting too, because like the first round of it, we, we first like sold the book also just to put out there too. Like we had a unique selling way that I think, yeah. Okay. Perfect. Perfect. So it was a little more, it was different. went to a book meetup in South by Southwest and people were just like, that is not what I've experienced. So I'll put it out there that it was more unique. We got lucky that. Michelle Glogovac (18:57.952) That was gonna be my question. I wanna know about this part too. Yeah. Yue (18:59.847) yeah. Yeah. Great. Yes. Ahem. Yue (19:08.706) Mm-mm. Julie (19:12.833) Our editor, Ronnie Alvarado, we'll give her a shout out. She is from Simon Element. She was a listener of our podcast. So she reached out to us and was like, I think there's something here. Your voice is like different than other podcasts in the dating space. Like this is a book. I can see it. So we talked to her first, then she put us in touch with agents. So from an getting an agent perspective was a lot easier for us because they were coming through. Yue (19:17.262) Mm-hmm. Julie (19:40.833) her and kind of knew that there was like a sure deal. So at that point, it took us like, I don't know, probably six months to write the book outline and the proposal. And then there's like a little bit, maybe even longer, I think it was like April and then we actually pitched it to Simon and Schuster in like October. So a little longer. then, Nope. Yue (19:51.214) Mm-hmm. Yue (20:03.404) And the deal was a first look deal. So it wasn't a guaranteed deal. It was just that we would have to first pitch to Simon & Schuster before we take it out to the masses. Julie (20:14.591) Right, but we loved her, we loved them, so we were like, unless there's some real reason to bring it out longer, like don't need to necessarily do that. So at that point, like the actual deal, I think we closed it in like a week, if even. It was like real short and you know, our agent was kind of like, this is going for, like, you you're not gonna get like that much more money somewhere else. Like it's probably like about comparable and then of course there's like a risk of not liking who you're working with or. Yue (20:28.202) Yeah. Yeah. Julie (20:43.445) them not buying it at all. So we had to like kind of weigh that and we just went with our instinct there. And I think overall we've been really happy with that decision. Michelle Glogovac (20:52.338) exciting and it's just a note for everybody to remember. You don't know who's listening or who's watching. I mean, that's huge that an editor of a Big Five is listening to your show and is like, hey, you should write a book. Wink, wink. Yue (20:56.246) You don't Julie (20:56.766) Yes. Julie (21:06.539) Well, I mean, maybe that is the, yeah. Yue (21:06.604) Yes, and she was going through it. She was going through dating and she felt it was very relatable. I, you who knew, who knew that this person who was like at the right time in her life came into our universe and she found it really relatable. Julie (21:26.261) Yeah, it's one of those things too, like, I'm always like, we got so lucky. But then at the same time, it's like, we've been doing this podcast for eight years before that happened. So it's different levels of work, but it is such a reminder for all the people out there that eventually want to write a book that are listening to your podcast right now that may have their own content in some form to just keep going with it. like, it will land in the right people's ears. And then that's like a way in as well. Yue (21:34.208) Yeah, true. Michelle Glogovac (21:55.21) Yeah, and I love the reminder that you've been doing this for eight years. It's not like you just showed up on the scene last year, had this show and you're like, yeah, we're gonna talk about dating. No big deal. And now we're gonna write a book and we got a deal. It didn't happen overnight. Julie (21:58.503) Yeah. No. Definitely not. Yue (22:00.684) Right. Julie (22:08.691) It's no, and I think honestly, we couldn't have done it the first year. Like we didn't know enough. Like we needed that eight years to build the knowledge and to talk to thousands to 10 to thousands of daters and really get that research of like what's happening. Like if we had just wrote this book the first year we were doing the podcast, it would have been so different and not in a good way. Yue (22:33.326) could have been a dating disaster book, could have been, you know, it's a different vibe, different vibe. Julie (22:35.091) Yeah, it could have been funny. It would have been a different maybe output. Yes. Michelle Glogovac (22:40.96) So since you mentioned the eight years together in doing this and then 10 years of friendship, I want to talk about too, because we talked about this off air, of the fact that you're both not in your 20s. And for people who think that you don't know dating or you haven't experienced life, we are all in our 40s here, everybody. Yue (23:00.174) Hell yeah. Mm-hmm. We're in the. Julie (23:02.165) Michelle was like, I was so surprised. Michelle Glogovac (23:04.66) I was, always said, cause I just have you, even though I've known you for years, I have you in my head, like that you're not my age. Yue (23:13.394) yeah, no, we're in the golden age of our 40s. And it's true. And I think that this is the thing with dating is every... What makes someone a dating expert? This is a question Julie and I are constantly asking, because you can't get like a certification or a degree. So what is it? I mean, you probably could, but is this something you can study academically? You kind of have to do hands-on, on-the-job training with something like this. Michelle Glogovac (23:30.439) He probably could. Yue (23:42.558) And we feel like to make someone a dating expert, which is now we can confidently say we are, is one, we've been out there, we've done it, we've experienced dating, and two, we've been able to use that experience into actionable learnings. And that's kind of how we frame the book too, is like, yeah, our degree in dating is from doing the podcast, it's from being out there dating in the field. And then the expertise comes from synthesizing that information into actionable learnings so people don't have to repeat the same mistakes that maybe we have. Julie (24:20.545) And all the people, you know, it's actually interesting. This is where I was going before and then got derailed by our selling story. But when we were writing the book, there's a quiz in the book of what is your dating archetype, the type of data you are. And, you know, again, like from all the people we've talked to, we've been able to kind of see these like five buckets that people tend to fall into of their behaviors when dating and attitudes and their approaches overall. And what was interesting is this was a little further back in our book originally. And we did the whole like manuscript turn in. And at that point we were like sharing chapter by chapter with our editor for feedback. And she was kind of like when she saw it all together, she's like, you guys are burying the lead by having this quiz so far back. Let's bring it up and then make sure that every chapter like references it. Yue (25:06.446) Mmm. Julie (25:14.291) And we actually did a huge rewrite at that point. Like it was the book, didn't like change the content, but the structure changed because actually at the beginning it was more about you and I story because when we sold this book, they were like, we want more of you. We want more of your stories. So then we did that. And then after this rewrite, they were like, maybe we want less of you. Yue (25:22.253) Yeah. Yue (25:35.098) She's like, nah, we're good. Michelle Glogovac (25:36.662) That's too much you. That's too much you. Go back, go back. Julie (25:41.067) So yeah, so we ended up doing like the five composite characters that all correlated with one of the dating archetypes. And some of our stories may be woven into those dating those characters, but also it's, it's stories that we've heard from all the podcast guests that we've heard and just people we've talked to in the last 10 years. And it was really interesting though, like how the structure just changed with that, but it ended up being so much better. Yue (25:52.526) Mm-hmm. Julie (26:10.549) And I think that's like the beauty of having an editor because we would have probably just like pass that in had we had like self published round one. And it just became so much stronger. Yue (26:10.712) Yeah. Michelle Glogovac (26:18.794) Yeah. And I love it because after having read it, it makes sense exactly what you just said and how she did. Way to go, Ronnie. Yeah. It totally makes sense that, yes, the way it's laid out is it's beautiful. It's perfect. And I can see exactly how it would have been before and how it is now and that this is the way it was meant to be. It's amazing. You guys are so good. I'm so excited for you. It's just ridiculous. Julie (26:26.433) Editor extraordinaire. Yue (26:26.786) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yue (26:48.078) Thank you. Julie (26:48.321) Thank you. We really appreciate you. Michelle Glogovac (26:51.222) Well, I knew you before you got on CNN. Shout out to Saba if she's listening. Who's now married? We got to see her go through a relationship too. Yue (26:53.654) Right, right, yes, yes. Yes, Abba, yes. I know, I know. Yes. Julie (27:02.131) Yes, and we met her actually at South by the same or what we just talking about South by Southwest. We were able to hang out with her and her friend, which was super fun. Michelle Glogovac (27:11.414) It's amazing. Okay, do you have people who come back to you, whether they've been on the show or they've been listening and they give you their success stories? What's been the biggest success story? Julie (27:18.847) Mm-hmm. yeah. Yue (27:23.832) So many, well one comes to mind. We have a podcast friend who lives in Chicago, right? DC? Chicago. I can't remember now. okay, all right, all right. Anyway, damn, DC, it should be DC. He was really struggling with dating and we would do monthly calls with him and there was definitely a lot of... Julie (27:34.475) I don't even know who you're thinking of. Okay, keep going, keep going. Yue (27:53.932) A lot of like this preconceived notions about dating that were getting his way. He felt like things had to go a certain way. He thought he had to present himself in a certain way. And this one time when we were on a call, his friend popped in the background and he showed the, podcast friend, he showed this completely different side of him in front of his friend. He was so comfortable at ease, funny and witty. Julie (28:06.744) okay. Yue (28:19.522) we're like, where did this side come from? And he's like, this is how I am with my friends. So for several months, maybe even a year, we kind of coached him through that. It's like, how can you bring out, Julie (28:34.845) my god, sorry. I just got like some like amber alert. my god, it's going. Michelle Glogovac (28:40.982) We usually get the silver emergencies. tsunami. Julie (28:41.537) Tsunami warning, sorry. Yue (28:43.47) Tsunami? How could that even be? Yeah, how could there be a tsunami warning? That's odd. Michelle Glogovac (28:46.432) Wait, aren't you here in the Bay Area? Julie (28:48.17) Yah! Michelle Glogovac (28:53.074) I didn't get one, so you can come to San Jose if you need to, Apparently we're safe here. Yue (28:56.372) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hop on out. Julie (28:58.145) feel like none of these actually go anywhere. But anyways, sorry about that. Yue (29:01.494) Yeah, hop on that Caltrain. Yeah, get to safety. Yeah, so for a while, we really coached him through that and kind of like, how do you reveal your most authentic self and how can you present with the true you before anything else? And it took a little bit, but he was able to finally get over that hump of being performative or thinking that he had to be a certain way on dates. And now he's in a really happy relationship. He's so happy. Michelle Glogovac (29:04.405) Yeah. Julie (29:05.535) Huh? Yue (29:31.254) in this relationship that we don't even hear from him much anymore. We're like, with Julie and I was like, have we heard from him in a while? It's been a while. And we check in, he's like, everything's good. It's all good. He's very happy. But it, you know, that's like one of the major success stories I can really think of at first is because he's such a great guy. Like from day one, we're like, you're such a catch. You're so dateable, but you are presenting as something you're not. Michelle Glogovac (29:34.293) Hahaha Julie (29:37.972) Yeah. Yue (29:59.842) How do we get through that? You're playing the dating game when you don't need to. You just need to be your true self. Julie (30:08.469) I think it's so funny you said podcast friend, Yue, because I'm like, who are you talking about? And then I realized you were talking about a listener of our podcast. And I think actually though, I was going to say like, we had this group over the pandemic. It was called the Sounding Board. And these people almost became, they became friends. It's not even almost, they became friends because we had so much engagement with our listeners and was so great to see this community just in like, you know, in real time. Yue (30:11.758) I hope. I hope. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Julie (30:38.465) Because when you're podcasting, you don't know who's listening, but with this community, they became friends and we actually had, we didn't actually plan it. It was them that planned it. They planned a trip out to San Francisco. People flew from across the country to come and meet from this group. And he was one of the people. And at the time, like I think most of them were still single because it was like they were in the thick of dating. And there was actually someone posted on Facebook, you know how like Facebook will like remind you of the past events? It was like, three years ago, three years ago today, this happened. And I looked at that photo and every single person in that picture was in a happy, healthy relationship today. And I was like, wow. And that's why we know this stuff works. Cause like that, that's a big part of our book too is like we have Michelle Glogovac (31:10.066) Mm-hmm. Yue (31:11.096) and your exes. Michelle Glogovac (31:24.382) Wow. Julie (31:31.669) this cohort of people like these people that we've met that have become podcast friends, right? Through the podcast that we've seen their growth, we saw how they operated and what they've learned and what we've been able to share with them from the podcast. And then we see the people that are just like dating is the worst. It's such a hellscape. It's terrible. And there's a huge dichotomy between the two. And what this book is is like, okay, how do you become in this group? Yue (31:37.804) Mm-hmm. Julie (31:59.637) The group that's thriving, that's finding love, that's thinking that dating is fun and not in the other group. Michelle Glogovac (32:07.124) I love that. I am so excited for you too. This is so amazing. You two are just, you're changing the world. You're bringing people together and helping them get through dating and making it dating. Julie (32:18.273) Yes, I love that. Yue (32:18.51) Yeah, yeah, we hope people will use the D word with some happiness and joy when they talk about dating, because dating is a privilege that we get to exercise and it is something that our predecessors didn't have the freedom to choose whoever they wanted. And now we get to choose someone for love? mean, that's... such a privilege we get to do, as we get to have in our lives. So why don't we really enjoy the process instead of thinking it as like a, you know, as burdensome. Michelle Glogovac (32:55.572) that you're bringing the BDE. Yue (32:58.39) Yes, BDE. Julie (32:58.654) Always. Michelle Glogovac (33:02.272) love it. Where can everybody listen to the podcast, buy the book? Do you narrate the audiobook too, both of you? Yes. Yes. Isn't that the best? As podcast hosts, we have to narrate our books. Yes. Julie (33:07.233) We did. Yes, we did. yeah. You're not allowed not to. Yeah. So howtobedatable.com is where you can find the book and it links out to, you know, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, all the sellers, Audible. But you also could just go on the site, those sites and search for how to be datable. And then datablepodcast.com, any podcast platform, you can find us. Yue (33:07.394) Mm-hmm. Yue (33:12.918) You have to. Yes. Julie (33:35.775) an at-datable podcast on Instagram. On the gram. Michelle Glogovac (33:36.084) And I was gonna say, and on the gram, that's where you're at too. Thank you ladies so much and congratulations. Yue (33:40.219) On the gram, on the gram, gotta be. Julie (33:46.879) Thank you, Michelle. Yue (33:47.096) Thanks Michelle for having us.