Michelle Glogovac (00:00.811)
Hello, Lewis. I'm good. How are you?

Louis L. Reed (00:03.266)
Hey, Michelle, how are you? I'm well, I'm well, so well.

Michelle Glogovac (00:08.873)
It's been a few years since you've been on the show and this time we have you on video, so...

Louis L. Reed (00:11.598)
Yeah. Yeah, it's been a few years since I've been on the show, but not a few years since you and I have been in communication with one another. You're one of my favorite people and not just all of the podcast world, but you're one of my favorite people in life. yeah.

Michelle Glogovac (00:25.775)
you are buttering me up for a good episode. Last time you said that I was up your favorite with Michelle Obama. We were the two Michelle's that are your favorite.

Louis L. Reed (00:35.906)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that that still stands. You definitely.

Michelle Glogovac (00:39.443)
It should, it should stand even more now at this point, I mean.

Louis L. Reed (00:42.71)
I would agree. I would agree with that. Yes. Yes.

Michelle Glogovac (00:46.625)
Can you reintroduce yourself to everybody, please?

Louis L. Reed (00:49.058)
Yeah, allow me to reintroduce myself. For those of you who do know me, my name is Louis L. Reed. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Louis L. Reed. Please don't forget the L in between the Louis and the Reed. My dad would have an issue with that. I am an author and an advocate. did 14 years in federal prison. I was released from incarceration approximately 10 years or so ago, but who's counting? I springboarded my career in human services from there.

I went on to do local government work. I convinced the largest city in state of Connecticut that they needed a government office for reentry affairs. I was the inaugural reentry director in Connecticut's largest city. We replicated that model throughout the country. From there, my career continued to elevate to go on to do national work where I worked on a few bills to get a whole bunch of people out of federal prison. And as of today, I am the executive vice president of an organization called

the Frederick Douglass Project for Justice, where we bridge the gap between people who are incarcerated and people who are in free society. I am also the chief executive officer of Decoded Story Lab, which is a documentary film company. And I like to consider myself one of Michelle's favorite people. thank you. Yeah. All right.

Michelle Glogovac (02:07.35)
you are. Yeah. Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah. I talk about you all the time, whether you know it or not. I do.

Louis L. Reed (02:13.026)
Yeah, I can. I don't even hear my ears ringing. I hear my I can feel my heart burning.

Michelle Glogovac (02:19.947)
I do, talk about you on the show, I talk about you in my interviews, I'm always chatting about you. Yeah, and you're a man who wears many hats and not just the one that's on your head now, but every time I'm like, what are you doing now? Because you missed out the title of producer on the Hulu show.

Louis L. Reed (02:36.834)
Yeah, I forgot about that. on, on, on prison, with Kerry Washington, served as a social impact, lead over there. And also I'm featured in two documentaries. One happens to be the first step, alongside Van Jones, Kim Kardashian and a few other people and a recent release of a documentary that features me and two other, advocates called when does freedom begin as well. And I'm also a producer on that.

I forgot all about that. Thanks for reminding me.

Michelle Glogovac (03:08.535)
And then you're also a podcast host on Illmatic.

Louis L. Reed (03:11.212)
Yeah, yeah, you know, Mad Podcast is my, my creative side. And so yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks for

Michelle Glogovac (03:20.487)
Yeah, I can just go through your bio that it's all up here, I know it all. But your show is one of my favorites, so you need to revamp that and bring it back because it's been on pause.

Louis L. Reed (03:30.498)
I am. Yeah, yeah. Well, after the first of the year, we got some interviews set up and scheduled. And after the first of the year, we definitely will be back in action in full swing.

Michelle Glogovac (03:43.145)
Okay, now let's talk about your newest book. We'll get back to that one because it is so cute. The illustrations are adorable. And that probably sounds funny as we're talking about all of these serious things. I'm like, your book's so cute.

Louis L. Reed (03:45.026)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

Louis L. Reed (03:56.366)
Yeah, so I wrote a book inspired by the work that we did on the First Step Act. For those of you who are in our listening and or viewing audience, the First Step Act was a federal bill that we passed back in 2018. We convinced Congress to pass and then President Trump to sign into law that to date has released more than 45,000 people from federal prison. Let me also say this as well, for those of you who are like, wow, 45,000 people got released from federal prison.

That is impressive. think that what's equally impressive is that 87 % of the people who got released under that bill did not recidivate. 87%. Now you have to consider that approximately 77 % of people who do get released recidivate within the first three years. And so 87 % of those people got released on that 45,000 number have not recidivated. Let me also say this as well. Another 8%.

Michelle Glogovac (04:45.015)
Mm.

Louis L. Reed (04:53.6)
of the remaining percentage of those folks who got released were re-arrested due to a technical probation violation. So it's not like they committed new crimes. They were probably fraternizing with people who were convicted of felony offenses themselves. They showed up to a appointment late or so on and so forth. So I just wanted to just add that as well. But the book was inspired by the work that we did on the First Step Act. It was also inspired by my own life as well.

I was a child of incarcerated parents. I was a father who had children while obviously I was incarcerated. And I was just thinking about how in the United States of America, there more than 6 million kids who are experiencing parental incarceration. Think about that. More than 6 million.

Michelle Glogovac (05:41.535)
It's so many kids. And you know what? I want to bring up that I bet you that listeners don't even know that they know a child. Because I personally know a child. I'm not going to go into it because we don't want to expose this child. But I know a child whose parent is incarcerated. And sweetest little thing ever. But who does know? Who doesn't know? It's not something that we talk about. It's not something that the child is going to openly talk about.

Louis L. Reed (06:06.636)
Yeah. Michelle, I remember being so ashamed when my parents were incarcerated. I would make up stories. My mother, now you have to also keep in mind that my mother was relatively young. My mother was super fly. My dad was super sharp. And I remember being so embarrassed when my grandmother, who was a registered nurse, would show up to school for PTA.

conferences and for the other school-based activities that I had. Because number one, there was a generational disconnect there. Number two, my grandmother relatively older, whereas my mother far much more useful, far much more buoyant, et cetera. And the third thing is that my mother was an educator. And so I would make up stories with my friends to say, yeah, my mother is away teaching. And my father was a military police officer.

just so embarrassed about the notion of my parents being incarcerated. I'll tell you very quick story. I was in the second grade and I had one of those can't sit still episodes. And I remember there was a teacher's aide, her name was Ms. Smith. She was a black woman and she had a jury carol. And I remember she pulled me out of the class. She pushed me against the wall and she put her finger this close to the bridge of my nose. And she was like, if you don't stop, you're be just like those kids that I read about.

in a paper. And I remember

Louis L. Reed (07:38.306)
the feeling of wishing my mother was there to slap that jerry curl out of that woman's head. Because I knew how my mother felt about me, but I also knew how my grandmother put a premium on education. And so I couldn't go home and say, hey, grandma, this woman made me feel this way and this is what it was that she did to me. But I knew that if my mother was around, I knew that my mother would have protected me.

And so just that experience in and of itself that still sits with me, I was in second grade, that still sits with me here it is 30 plus years later. That in and of itself was something that I remember about my parents' incarceration. And so when I thought about the inspiration for this book, I thought about all of the kids who are in effect in the shadows of what it's like to have an absent mother or absent father due to incarceration. And I wanted to write a book

for them. So the book is called Deuce's First Step. It follows this young man who wants to grow up to be an engineer. And he has all of these passions and he has all of this creative energy, but it's diminished when his father is incarcerated. And so Deuce is supported by his best friend. Her name is Scarlett. And Deuce discovers this

program through the community center called the First Step program that's going to teach him these emotional literacy skills. He goes through the First Step program and therefore he has this pivot moment. And I don't want to give it away because you're to have to purchase the book in order to actually see what the end result of it is. But I think that it's a beautiful story about a child who in effect is like any other child that you probably see, that you probably know, and you want to nurture yourself. I think that every

parent, every caretaker, every adult is going to see a version of someone that they know induce.

Michelle Glogovac (09:42.069)
And I think it's also important to have this book not only for parents, caretakers, teachers, for children of incarcerated parents, but also for other children who are exposed to… they're interacting with children. I don't want to say exposed. They're interacting with other students who are going through this. And they all know it's playground talk. It truly is. I know because my kids come home, you know.

Louis L. Reed (10:03.18)
Yeah, yeah. No, no. Yeah, no different than how it is. It's water cooler conversations for adults, right? When when there's a breakup in the office or something to that degree happens playground talk. Yep.

Michelle Glogovac (10:15.465)
Yeah. And I mean, I've had this conversation with my daughter because she came home and she said, you know, so and so's parent couldn't come to the parent teacher conference because she's sick and, you know, his dad's in jail. And I go, I do know. So who told you that? And then it's, well, so and so said it. And so and so and go, well, did somebody say this to him? Because then we're going to have some issues. And then we have the conversation of, well, you know, you don't single him out. You don't talk about it. It's none of your business.

Louis L. Reed (10:27.726)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle Glogovac (10:44.631)
nor is it of anybody else's business. And you be kind to him because now you also know that there's something going on in his life, period. So I think it's important for so many.

Louis L. Reed (10:51.854)
Right, yeah. We all need Mother Michelle's influence.

Michelle Glogovac (11:00.929)
probably very much like your mom in a way.

Whether or not you're my child, I will protect you and...

But it's important to have these conversations. I remember back to our first conversation on this show that I had shared with you. I've never been exposed to, I've never been to jail, I've never been to prison. I didn't know people who had. And now I'm having this conversation with my eight year old because she's already exposed to someone who is related to someone. So these conversations are starting earlier, but they're conversations that need to be had.

Louis L. Reed (11:14.222)
Yes.

Louis L. Reed (11:41.41)
Yeah, yeah. And then the goal just doesn't stop with the production of the book. And so ultimately what the goal is, it's twofold. I want to put this book into the hands of a million children free of charge impacted by parental incarceration. And so that is ultimately the goal. Second is that we have, by the time this podcast airs, we have an animated series that's going to be releasing on YouTube.

in February, on February 7th, incidentally, which happens to be on my birthday. And so we're going to be releasing a three-part animated series around Deuces' story on YouTube as result of this. So there's going to be this fluidity, so to speak, of learning and interaction as a result of who Deuces is and what Deuces' experience is. Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac (12:37.013)
love this. I love… So we know what inspired you, your own personal experience, but at what point did you go, you know what, I'm gonna write a kid's book. I'm just gonna do that because you're always coming up with something new. So at what point, because you surprised me, you're like, hey, by the way, I got this book. What?

Louis L. Reed (12:47.181)
Yeah.

Louis L. Reed (12:51.406)
Yeah, so over the last six months, I've just been having conversations with...

Children in my own family. I have cousins who currently are serving federal prison time. I'm a surrogate dad, uncle to my younger cousins in lieu of my older cousins absence. And I just been thinking about what it's like for me to put my younger cousins in a car and for me to bring them to an institution. What is that like for them to have to go into an institution?

have this moment of what seems like normalcy, relatively speaking, with their parent, and then have to leave, and then they have to go back into their respective silos. What is that conversation like for them afterwards, internally? What does it mean to them when they have to only have a 15-minute call with their mother or their father?

because in prison or in jail, your calls are allotted to about 15. What does that feel like when you're in the middle of saying, hey, mom, hey, dad, I got this report or this guess what happened today? And kids don't speak with message discipline, right? They don't have brevity on things. So by the time they get to the point, you're about that 14 second, 14 minute, 59 second mark. What is that like for them to be cut off in the middle?

Michelle Glogovac (14:18.807)
Okay.

Louis L. Reed (14:28.504)
What is that like for them to have to hear every five minutes during the intervals on the telephone call? This call is from a federal prison to remind you of where you are. What is that like for them? And so I started thinking about that and I was like, you know something, I do a lot of things that have been in and around the adult space, working on dignity for incarcerated women, helping people impacted in a reentry space.

You know, I've even have done some supportive work around juvenile justice, but I haven't done anything creative that is going to specifically speak to the needs and directly into the hearts and minds of children who've been impacted by this issue.

Michelle Glogovac (15:12.799)
And it's so important. I've connected you with Nikia Hargrove and she was on the podcast earlier and her book opens up with the memories of visiting her mom in prison and what that was like to see her be searched and to be searched yourself and then sit down and then have to walk away. And again, for her, it's been decades as well. These things stick with you and they're the memories that you don't want to have as your memories per se for your childhood.

Louis L. Reed (15:40.782)
I can tell you, Michelle, you know, in the heart of every adult, there's a child that preceded us. I know in my heart, in my spirit, in my soul, there is always that eight-year-old child who's peeking through the curtains and afraid of Ms. Smith and wanting somehow, in some way, shape or form, my mother to come rescue me.

And so when you think about Nakia, when she opens up her book with remembering her mother having to go to a prison visit, that's that child that's still inside of her, right? Peeking out their head to see, is the coast clear? It's all of those emotional complexities that come packaged in this adult.

frame that we have, but the fact that it matters that all of us have something, whether you have been in an emotional prison when you were a child, whether you've experienced parental incarceration, all of us know what it's like to feel restricted, to have something about someone that we loved or even about ourselves diminished and restricted and call it a prison, call it trauma, call it drama, call it whatever it is that you want to call it, but the fact that it matters very real to some people.

Michelle Glogovac (17:09.557)
Yeah. What do you hope will come of this book? What's your biggest hope, your biggest goal that comes out of this?

Louis L. Reed (17:17.378)
Look, I'm hoping one of several things. Number one, I want this book to be a national model on how we can address the emotional and sociological needs of children impacted by incarceration. I remember it was this, when I was incarcerated, there was this trending topic because Sesame Street had introduced this muppet whose

parent was incarcerated and it was trending and it was in vogue and it's like, Sesame Street is doing the Muppet, know, blah, blah, blah. And then it kind of like faded to black. Well, children don't fade to black. They grow up. They grow up and they grow up with those experiences. And so I want to have this, the experiences of these children to be front and center in the minds of every single person who cares about this issue and or

who may not be thinking about it. That's the first thing. The second thing is I want to be able to produce creatively, you know, an animated series that's going to live outside of the five to seven minute mark. The same way that we have, I don't know, your mom, I was going to say Teletubbies, but that was probably back in the 90s. Well, whatever, whatever the, yeah, the, whatever the current thing is.

Michelle Glogovac (18:37.943)
Bluey, bluey.

Michelle Glogovac (18:45.011)
It is blue-y still.

Louis L. Reed (18:46.83)
So whatever as relevant as the current thing is, want Deuce's story to be just as relevant. That's the second thing that I want. And the third thing is that I want to remind people that when you incarcerate a parent, you incarcerate the child. You incarcerate a family. And for those of you who might be saying to themselves, well, people shouldn't do things

to be incarcerated. Look, I'm the first person to say, hey, yes, we probably should look at decisions and drivers, so on and so forth. But I do think that there is some psychological and or sociological things that we can have a very, very lively discussion about, about how we apply criminal solutions to social problems. And we need to be re-imagining what public safety looks like. Public safety is not the...

the absence of crime, but it's the presence of opportunity. Last I checked what 83 % of women who are incarcerated either a have been exposed to direct trauma. B are in for non non violent offenses, IE drug offenses, et cetera. And three, six out of 10 in women who are incarcerated.

are either a mother or are a caretaker.

So when you think about the drivers of what leads to crime, so on and so forth, again, behind every person, there is a story that contributes to the decisions that people make. And I wanna be able to bring those stories front and center. And at the very least, even if you look past the parent, it's hard to look past the eyes of a child. Yeah, we never.

Michelle Glogovac (20:28.865)
Absolutely.

Michelle Glogovac (20:37.899)
And we shouldn't. It shouldn't be hard. It should be never. Yeah. I love that. Where can everybody buy this incredible book that, let's, you know what, before we even get to that, let's talk about the illustrations and how you actually created this. you're just like, here we go. I'm just going to create this, you know, children's book with these pictures and poof, it's out in the world.

Louis L. Reed (20:42.136)
Yeah.

Louis L. Reed (20:52.876)
Yeah, yeah

Louis L. Reed (20:57.665)
it's

Louis L. Reed (21:01.922)
So was very involved in everything from, I wanted it to be culturally and ethnically representative of the world as I see it. I'm an African-American man. I'm mixed, but the people by whom are disproportionately impacted by the issue, they're black, brown, and poor white folks.

And I wanted to have the first installment of this book. And you guys are getting exclusive. The reason why I said first installment installment of this book is because we plan on breaking out a series. This book is going to be a trilogy. And so the first portion of the book, the first installment follows Deuce. The second portion installment of the book is going to follow his friend, Bree. And the third portion of the book is going to follow both Deuce and Bree and reunite in both of their parents, them with both of their parents.

But I wanted the book to, in effect, when I was thinking about the illustrations and I was thinking about Deuce, I imagine this kid who looks like an everyday child that you may see. He has glasses. I wear glasses sometimes. He has this kind of curly, woolish hair. I used to have curly, woolish hair when I was far much more youthful.

Michelle Glogovac (22:16.471)
You

You

Louis L. Reed (22:19.886)
And Deuce wants to be an engineer, right? Like, you know, and when I remember when I was a kid and I used to be, you know, just dreaming and thinking, I used to want to build things. I didn't know it was called an engineer at the time, but I just wanted to build things. I wanted to produce things. And so, you know, when you see Deuce, you see a reflection of who I am and who I think myself to be as a child and how I saw myself as a child. That's who you see in Deuce.

And the people around Deuce are the folks by whom I just drew some inspiration from. Miss Jackson, who is the social worker that Deuce connects with. Miss Jackson, the inspiration from Miss Jackson is from Jessica Jackson, who I have longed work with, who's the CEO of Reform Alliance. Scarlett, who is Deuce's best friend, happens to be Jessica Jackson's daughter.

Michelle Glogovac (23:16.087)
Uh-uh.

Louis L. Reed (23:16.398)
who was with us, she was just a little baby at the time, but she was with us when we were on a hill fighting for the First Step Act. Deuce's father, who makes a cameo appearance in the book, was inspired by Van Jones. And so there's a lot of inspiration that you'll see when you actually read the book.

Michelle Glogovac (23:41.111)
I love that. Now it's even more meaningful. I'm like, I don't know these people, but I know who they are. So that's awesome. So they're going to promote the heck out of this book too, right? Yes. Yeah, I better see it on Van's Instagram.

Louis L. Reed (23:43.234)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Louis L. Reed (23:51.671)
They should. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Louis L. Reed (23:58.232)
Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac (23:59.479)
I love that. That makes it more special. It really does. And it's a great book. It's adorable. So cute. Yes. All right. Now where can everybody find the book?

Louis L. Reed (24:06.712)
Thank you. Thanks. Thanks.

Yeah, you can find it wherever. You can find it on Amazon. You can find it on Barnes & Noble. Wherever you find your books at, on Google Play. It'll be on Apple Play by the time this broadcast airs, or Apple Store. Whatever. You can find it on Apple, Google, Amazon, and Barnes & Noble. Just Google it. Just Google it. Yeah, Deuce's first step. Deuce's first step.

Michelle Glogovac (24:31.745)
Just Google it. You'll find it.

and where can everybody find you and follow you?

Louis L. Reed (24:38.976)
Anywhere on social media, at LewisLRead, you can just Google me. And I'm certain that there's something that's going to pop up. You can find me on Instagram at LewisLRead, Facebook at LewisLRead, Twitter at LewisLRead. I even got a TikTok now. I resisted TikTok. don't do TikTok. I just post on there. I resisted TikTok for the longest. But I'm on TikTok at LewisLRead. I'm on blue skies as LewisLRead. Anywhere where can wear your social media.

Michelle Glogovac (24:53.366)
boy.

Michelle Glogovac (25:05.857)
I need to go follow you on both of those because I don't think I am yet, but I'm on the TikTok. The TikTok, it's not even the TikTok, but we sound like old people, which we are. So we have to be there though. Thank you so much and congratulations on this new book. And we're going to get it out to all of these children. It's just, it's going to, it's going to be done.

Louis L. Reed (25:11.192)
We sound like parents.

Louis L. Reed (25:19.094)
Yeah.

Louis L. Reed (25:27.32)
We are. We are.