Michelle Glogovac (00:01.124)
Hi, Nikiya.

Nikkya Hargrove (00:02.87)
Hi Michelle.

Michelle Glogovac (00:04.578)
I am so happy you're talking to you on a Monday morning. You're making my week already.

Nikkya Hargrove (00:07.094)
It's so cold here in Connecticut, but we are here. I have my coffee though,

Michelle Glogovac (00:13.764)
Same. And here it was in the 40s this morning and I say that's cold. You're probably colder. Yeah. Okay. You win, but I'm still cold.

Nikkya Hargrove (00:18.038)
Nope, 27. 27, yeah. I'll take 40. I'll take your 40.

Michelle Glogovac (00:28.624)
Well, it should be reached 60 by this afternoon, so I can't complain, but I will still be in multiple sweaters because that's me.

Nikkya Hargrove (00:36.928)
Yeah, tis the season.

Michelle Glogovac (00:39.34)
Yes, can you introduce yourself to everyone, please?

Nikkya Hargrove (00:43.068)
Sure, my name's Nikia Hargrove. I am the author of a debut memoir called Mama, a queer black woman's story of a family lost and found. It was published on October 15th, so it still feels very new to me.

Michelle Glogovac (01:00.472)
And it will, cause you'll have to keep promoting this for at least another year. I know how it goes.

Nikkya Hargrove (01:06.772)
That's what I'm hearing. did not know that the way that it goes, but I'm a fast learner.

Michelle Glogovac (01:14.416)
I feel like the heavy lifting is before, but then you have to keep continuing to do it. my hope is things slow down and that's when it's good to reach out to an author.

Nikkya Hargrove (01:27.286)
Yeah, right now it's slowed down a tad, but I understand there's like phase two. So I'm unsure what that entails, but it's coming. Phase two is coming. Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac (01:28.376)
It hasn't slowed down for you, has it?

Michelle Glogovac (01:39.618)
It's coming. Yes. And you still have so many things going on. I love it. And let's also talk about the fact that you're a bookstore owner.

Nikkya Hargrove (01:48.532)
Yeah, that is also very new. You know, it's difficult for me to promote myself or talk about myself because that's just not who I am as a person, but it is now my job to talk about the author, Nikiya. But I am also a small business owner. And a month before the book came out, I opened Art Town's one and only independent bookstore.

It is called Abodo Serendipity Books. And Abodo means community. it's a language, I mean, it's a word spoken in Nigeria, and it's the Igbo language. So community, Abodo, serendipity, books in Stratford, Connecticut is where our home is. So I'm learning.

a lot, both about the community that I call home and chose for my family and I, but also about what it means to be a small business owner. There are so many little tiny things that you just don't think about, you know?

Michelle Glogovac (02:57.146)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle Glogovac (03:03.246)
Yeah. And they continue. I've been a business owner for years now and there's still things that I went, yeah. and let's get a trademark and let's do this and more legal stuff. And don't forget to file this thing with the feds. yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (03:10.23)
Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah. At a certain point I was like, is it because I'm like over 40 now that like I'm slowing down and like my thought processes and the multitasking and, but no, there are just so many dots to be connected, Michelle, but.

Michelle Glogovac (03:29.581)
No.

Michelle Glogovac (03:33.74)
Yes, and I'm in that over 40 crowd with you and I'm like, really? You know, the emails of you have to file this. Did you get this? Don't forget this. And then, there's new things and I've got one accountant saying this and I'm like, wait, is that the same thing that the attorney just told me to fill out? Because we're not filling this out. Yeah, it is never ending.

Nikkya Hargrove (03:40.714)
Yes! My gosh! Yeah!

Nikkya Hargrove (03:50.71)
No, no, and then to be new at it all. At least you have some years, right, in the game.

Michelle Glogovac (03:58.212)
But everything changes, so things are still new. There's new forms and just, yeah. And then you get your ducks in row and you're like, and I have to reconcile all the statements every month and yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Nikkya Hargrove (04:02.39)
Yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (04:09.27)
Like, what's QuickBooks? I don't know what that is. You know, that sort of thing. But here we are. I know how to write. So I have that. Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac (04:16.994)
You do. And your book was beautiful. I loved it. Give us a synopsis of it without the spoilers.

Nikkya Hargrove (04:26.198)
Ooh, that's hard. Okay, so we're done.

Michelle Glogovac (04:27.632)
Well, we know how you end up because you've already told us that you wrote the book and you own a bookstore.

Nikkya Hargrove (04:34.078)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I wrote the book. I'm still alive post-writing the book. So while it was difficult to sit at the computer and sort of reopen some of the wounds, essentially it's a story about love. It's a story about community. It's a story about motherhood and my own mothering. It is a story about hope. And I am someone innately.

hopeful that things will turn out in life the way that they are meant to. And that is the journey of the book. I start off with a scene that when I reread that first chapter, I'm right back there in the car heading to Eastern Long Island to see my mother who just gave birth to my half brother.

and the excitement and the anxiety, it's all there. And the book is about my journey to really reconciling my upbringing and how that upbringing translates into me having the drive and the fight, if you will, to take on the responsibility of raising my half brother.

after our mom dies unexpectedly, four months after he was born. And so the book really walks the reader through what life was like for me as a teenager, and then fast forwards to my mother's death and what happens in the months and years after that.

Michelle Glogovac (06:27.024)
And I feel that for me, a big theme also was forgiveness. And I mentioned to you when I reached out that I saw that you're connected with Jonathan Conyers, who I've gotten to meet and read his book and interview. And I felt very much that you both had that in both of your books and your lives of this ability to forgive the way that you did. And it blows me away for both of you, your incredible human beings to have witnessed

parents who have gone through what they've gone through allowed you to have the experience that you had because ultimately you wouldn't have had it if it weren't for what your mother did. And you came through it in such a big, beautiful way and to then raise your brother on top of it, you're just an amazing human.

Nikkya Hargrove (07:06.335)
Yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (07:18.09)
Well, thank you. Thank you, Michelle. You know, I don't think I'm that amazing. What I do know is that my story and my journey through the system as the daughter of a formerly incarcerated woman is not that of many. You know, I know that my upbringing was very different than some of my, I'll call them family, other children who,

you know, had a parent in prison. I was raised by my grandparents, my maternal grandparents, and I had this ability of calling them grandma and grandpa or nanny and poppy as it were. But they were the consistent two people in my life. And even for my own siblings, the other children my mother had, they can't say that. You know, they don't have the same story. You know, though we were birthed by the same woman,

they did not have that stability. And so I know that my fight is singular in the sense that I am very stubborn. I'm a very stubborn person. And I think that has helped me in many ways, you know? And I think that's, I think we should just, you know, recognize and name that my story or my current situation, you know, in this.

life that I'm living is not one that every person who's had a parent in prison can say. However, I do think that it's within reach, even as a queer person, to see myself with a family that I have today and the family that I was so intent on having. I credit that to my stubbornness, but I...

I want people to know once they get to the last page or if they're listening to the audiobook that that dream that rests in their heart is attainable. It's not to say it's not gonna come without struggle because it certainly will, certainly will. But just keep working, just keep pushing, just keep fighting.

Michelle Glogovac (09:37.348)
I love that you knew what you wanted when it came to raising your brother, when it came to loving who you loved, making sure that it would come together, that you could do it and you really wouldn't stop, like you said, the stubbornness. It was definitely, you're like, no, we're going to do this and you will be a mom too and we're going to… No, I love you and that's that.

Nikkya Hargrove (10:00.406)
Woo!

Nikkya Hargrove (10:04.082)
Yeah, you know, today my partner, my wife, you know, tells me to slow down. She's just like, we don't need to do that now. You know, after the bookstore, after the bookstore, were heading to her, after I opened the bookstore, we were heading to her job. She's a, she's a pediatric hospital chaplain. And I don't know, for some reason I was dropping her off. And we passed by Yale University because she works at Yale. And there is this, this building, this newly built building.

And it's all glass. And I'm looking out of the window. And there are students in there with their headphones on and their laptops. And I'm like, Dineshka, look at that. And she's like, look at what? I'm like, look at, like, there's such light and joy in that building. I was like, maybe I should get my PhD. And she was like, let's just focus on the bookstore. Let's just do it. She's like, let's see how that turns out. So you know.

I think it's important that we all have someone in our lives to say, let's push pause for right now. And she's my person. She's that person for me.

Michelle Glogovac (11:14.16)
I love it. I love that you've had the happy ending. That's not a spoiler. It's just it is what it is. And I'm so glad because we need happy endings, although it's not the end. You're just beginning. Why did you decide to open a bookstore?

Nikkya Hargrove (11:19.594)
Yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (11:24.372)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (11:29.558)
I saw that there was a need, number one, in our community for a community space that only a bookstore has. So that was thing number one. Thing number two, I love, one, I love reading, but my kids also love reading for the most part, with the exception of the teenager.

And I knew that I was the right person to be that person in our community to open this door. I know that there is such value in sharing stories. And I'm not going to say diverse stories because I think every story that makes it on the page and out and can be put on a shelf is a story worth being there. Even if it might not be my cup of tea, it's someone else's cup of tea.

And I think having that opportunity to go into a bookstore and pick that book off the shelf is completely important. Also, community events is something big within bookstores and in ours in particular, the sort of foundation of the bookstore is social and emotional learning. And so there are themes throughout the bookstore that relate to SEO. And so...

There's a kids nook in the back and all of it is like, how are you feeling today? Did you check in with yourself? And so, you know, there are pieces of my bookstore that people might walk in and say, it's a kids bookstore or it's a queer bookstore. And it's none of those things. It's a space for everybody. And it's all of those things. Right. And so.

One of the things that I think over the past two and a half months since we opened our doors is that light bulb moment that you you've probably heard people say it happens frequently when people walk into the bookstore and they're like, what is this? Is it what what is this? And so I have to explain, you know, it is a library. It is a community space. It is this it is that.

Nikkya Hargrove (13:51.902)
And so in short, Michelle, to answer your answer, to answer your question, I opened the bookstore to be a community space and a place of hope and understanding.

Michelle Glogovac (14:05.72)
I love that. I always want, you know, the Hallmark movie of the brick and mortar bookstore that you go into. We have a couple of bookstores, but it's not like the one that you walk down the street to. I would love that. I would love to have these community events, you know, but we don't. Maybe we're too big of a city. I don't know. San Jose. Yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (14:25.206)
Yeah. Yeah. You're in LA? San Jose. Okay.

Michelle Glogovac (14:33.956)
Yeah, so it's very spread out and it's not that feel. Like I get the feel. I want to come see your bookstore. I want to go and have a cup of coffee with you and peruse your shelves. Yes.

Nikkya Hargrove (14:38.102)
Yeah, please, okay. But you know, our town is very much like a working class town. Our neighbors are like firefighters and teachers, but all are invested in our community. And I was shocked that we've been here for almost 11 years and not one bookstore.

Michelle Glogovac (15:02.512)
I feel like it's kind of dying off, it seems. There's even, I found a website where you can look at bookstores for sale. And there's a lot. I'm like, this is interesting. Yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (15:11.795)
Nikkya Hargrove (15:15.602)
Yeah, yeah. mean, like, now that I'm sort of in that world, you know, people close their doors for many different reasons, you know. And a lot of people think, it's because they're not bringing in revenue. And some of it is because people have just lost their love for the work, you know, whether it's the publishing industry or the cost of books, you know, like whatever it is. But not all of it's because of the big Amazon, you know.

Michelle Glogovac (15:22.97)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle Glogovac (15:44.612)
Yeah, and yet people probably assume that that's what it is.

Nikkya Hargrove (15:48.458)
Yeah, it's true. I would have before I got into this world. But Barnes & Noble, they're building six new locations. 16, sorry, 16.

Michelle Glogovac (15:51.152)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle Glogovac (15:58.68)
They just closed ours down. They closed ours down. They're putting a Hobby Lobby in instead.

Nikkya Hargrove (16:03.446)
that's.

I'm sorry.

Michelle Glogovac (16:08.086)
I am not pleased. For those listening who can't see the look on my face, I am not pleased. I won't, I am not a hobby lobby person, so.

Nikkya Hargrove (16:16.423)
I'm sorry.

Nikkya Hargrove (16:21.014)
I've never been into a hobby love.

Michelle Glogovac (16:23.536)
Mm-mm. Not gonna happen. That could be a whole other episode with a rant.

Nikkya Hargrove (16:29.0)
It could. It could really be. think so. We probably should be.

Michelle Glogovac (16:31.49)
It's up there with Chick-fil-A. And yes, I've said it, everybody. I don't do Chick-fil-A either.

Nikkya Hargrove (16:38.486)
Neither do I. I think we stopped on a family trip once because there wasn't anywhere else to go. And we stopped and we're like, we don't understand what all the rave is about. I don't get it.

Michelle Glogovac (16:50.86)
Yeah. No, I've got KFC down the street. I'll just go to them instead. Yeah. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. I stand firm in my beliefs. I have no problem with guarding places.

Nikkya Hargrove (16:54.964)
I mean, do that, do that. Yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (17:02.326)
Yeah, yeah, and the whole closed on Sunday thing? Why?

Michelle Glogovac (17:07.414)
Mm-hmm. In and out's not.

Nikkya Hargrove (17:09.877)
Mm.

Michelle Glogovac (17:12.976)
We'll just leave it at that.

Nikkya Hargrove (17:14.07)
Okay.

Michelle Glogovac (17:17.456)
Let's go back to your book. Why did you decide to write it now? What was it that you said, okay, now it's time to share my story. Let me write a book.

Nikkya Hargrove (17:28.97)
Yeah, so a couple of things. The biggest being that the main character, Jonathan, is now 18. And I wanted to be mindful of not only his privacy, but his understanding of his story, because it is our story, before I just jumped headfirst into getting a book published and a memoir, nonetheless.

Michelle Glogovac (17:45.136)
Mm.

Nikkya Hargrove (17:57.992)
But I also wanted it to be now because I'm at a point in my own life where I just

I wanted someone else out there to know that carrying around shame is not something that you have to do forever.

that while forgiveness is possible, it is also a journey. And so those are the biggies. Those are the big reasons I felt that it was time now. You I think the idea of incarceration and mass incarceration in particular is something, unfortunately, that we're going to continue to talk about. So, you know, the book opens with

Michelle Glogovac (18:43.664)
Mm-hmm.

Nikkya Hargrove (18:47.254)
a scene, a memory of me visiting my mother in prison. And I've heard from readers who have just finished the book and will say, my gosh, that is exactly what I went through two weekends ago, visiting so-and-so. And nothing has changed when it comes to sitting in the visiting room in a prison or a jail. And you are the outsider coming in. And so that

Opening with that was very important to me because I wanted my readers to see that those scars, while I'm 42 now and I went to visit my mother in prison when I was a teenager, 14, 15, I still carry that. And it wasn't until I got married

Michelle Glogovac (19:37.082)
Hmm.

Nikkya Hargrove (19:43.156)
that I started to define what I experienced as a teenager, as a child, as trauma. And so I feel like I'm sort of late to naming what I experienced as trauma. And so I would even add that that is a third reason why I decided to write the book now, because as a parent, you know,

our kids force us to do the work, you know, the work of healing our own childhood drama scars, whatever you want to call it. And now I have three kids. so I, you know, I really wanted to raise them as a healthier version of myself. And so this book was therapeutic. It was cathartic. It was...

it was going backwards in terms of thinking about all the parts of my life that have made me who I am.

Did I answer your question Michelle?

Michelle Glogovac (20:57.454)
You did. Yeah, beautifully. Yes, it's perfectly. I want to know, since you brought up Jonathan, what does he think? I imagine he's very proud of you, of course. But what has been his reaction or the reaction of those who know him and what is that like for you and your family?

Nikkya Hargrove (21:16.854)
So I am done with most of my book events and Jonathan I was pretty adamant that he attend the launch the book which was on October 15th and He was like, okay fine Okay, Jonathan is was when the book came out he was 17 and I had given him the galley months in advance and I said You know read it so that if you come

Michelle Glogovac (21:29.615)
Mm-hmm.

Nikkya Hargrove (21:46.846)
with me on Book Tour, you can answer questions should people have any for you. So Jonathan read three quarters of the book through the paperback, the paperback, the galley version, onto his floor one night after deciding to go to sleep and our puppies chewed the book up. So Jonathan did not finish his copy of the book.

Michelle Glogovac (22:12.826)
Jonathan, you're in trouble,

Nikkya Hargrove (22:16.63)
So he came with me on book launch. I read an excerpt from the book, which I'm assuming he read because he told me he'd finished like three quarters of it. But I read it. I finished it. We finished the conversation on launch night. He came up to me, Michelle, and he gave me a hug, like the biggest hug he's given me in a very long time. And he said to me, he said,

I'm so proud of you. And then, and then he cried. He cried on my shoulder and I held back tears myself, but he really.

I don't know validate is the right word, but like the book was out there, right? It was the day that it was publishing day. And that hug and those tears just said to me, okay, this is right. This is where we need to go. This is the right time for it. And then he came to my last book event on book tour and he was like the star of the show. It was hilarious. People are like, my gosh.

You're Jonathan? my gosh. And, you know, of course they had all the questions like, what are you doing now? What do you think about this book? And, you know, he's a man of few words. He's like, yeah, you know, like I'm proud of my mom. That's where we sort of end. So we joke, you know, we joke like if it gets picked up on Netflix or someplace that he will be himself. He will act.

Michelle Glogovac (24:01.07)
yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (24:01.426)
in the series. But we remind him the story is of Jonathan at two and one, not Jonathan at 17.

Michelle Glogovac (24:11.576)
And you have to read the full script before you can act in it, buddy. So finish the book.

Nikkya Hargrove (24:14.07)
But he is in a musical theater program, so he could potentially act in some capacity. But musical theater, know, traditional acting, two separate, separate, you know. But that's my son. Still waiting for him to finish the book. We'll see.

Michelle Glogovac (24:29.328)
love it.

Michelle Glogovac (24:35.792)
That's hilarious.

Nikkya Hargrove (24:43.894)
You

Michelle Glogovac (24:46.32)
Well, I finished it, so tell him I'm one up on him and the story is not even about me.

Nikkya Hargrove (24:50.774)
I'm going to send him the audio book. think that might be.

Michelle Glogovac (24:54.82)
He can check it out on the library. The Libby app had it. So yeah, I had to wait. There was a wait for your book. There was a wait. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I got bumped up because, you you get the notifications of, you're now getting it because the library has acquired two more. And I'm like, good. Yeah, there was a wait. So you're doing good.

Nikkya Hargrove (24:57.277)
He could.

Nikkya Hargrove (25:01.322)
There was a wait? Yes!

Nikkya Hargrove (25:12.392)
Yay! you're the happiest! Yay!

Michelle Glogovac (25:19.322)
I love it. So what are you going to do next now that you have a bookstore? Are you going to write another book?

Nikkya Hargrove (25:24.862)
I am going to write another book. I believe after our conversation finishes, I'm going to open those pages that I've not looked at in months. But the next book is going to be my daughters, who are nine-year-old twins. I didn't mention them at all in this book. And I was like, how do you know? You didn't read the book.

Michelle Glogovac (25:50.48)
at the very end, because I know they existed.

Nikkya Hargrove (25:54.172)
Yeah, so they are very upset that their brother got a whole book and they didn't get anything. And so the next book will sort of be a continuation about my life, but really it will focus on my diagnosis when I was 38 of being diagnosed with complex PTSD and how those symptoms play out in my parenting.

Michelle Glogovac (26:21.433)
Mmm.

Nikkya Hargrove (26:22.192)
on a day-to-day basis, but it's also going to explore other familial makeups. So not just myself as a queer person, but also single parents who may have a diagnosis as well. How do we show up as parents, but also how do we heal in the process?

Michelle Glogovac (26:46.8)
Good. I can't wait. You're going to come back on and talk all about it and your kids are going to love it. So mine are eight and nine and my book came out in January. So there were tears and they read the dedication and then the acknowledgments and there was more tears and they check it out at their school library. I'm like, you can't check it out that much in your own copies. Why are we checking it out at the library?

Nikkya Hargrove (26:59.446)
Yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (27:05.494)
Thank

Yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (27:15.232)
just so no one else can get it. You know, they have to wait. I love it. I love it.

Michelle Glogovac (27:17.24)
Yeah, basically, yes. Yeah, there's a wait because my children have checked out my book. Yes, which we have plenty of copies, you know, all around the house. They are there the best. So your girls will totally be that way, especially when it's about them. And I'm sure that they will read the entire book before your launch. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Yes. Yeah. yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (27:27.392)
They're your marketing folks, you know? Yeah.

Nikkya Hargrove (27:37.85)
I think so. I'll send it to your sons so they can also read it. Never mind, the one that I wrote. How awesome to have such cool moms. I mean, really.

Michelle Glogovac (27:47.108)
Yeah. Put in the back somewhere my name and they'll be like, my gosh, you're in a book.

Michelle Glogovac (28:01.03)
I love it.

Michelle Glogovac (28:04.974)
right? They're so lucky.

Nikkya Hargrove (28:07.454)
I mean, one day they'll realize it. Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac (28:11.3)
Yeah, some days they do, other days it's, yesterday it was, you make my life so miserable. Cause I said, go practice your drums that you chose to play. Yeah. So each day is different.

Nikkya Hargrove (28:18.952)
Yeah. Hmm. Each day is different. I get the, well now it's like the girls are going, like heading towards puberty, which is not fun. No, but I got the, I'm the only one who does anything around this house.

Really?

Michelle Glogovac (28:43.024)
feel you, I feel you. Yeah, the eight year old's a girl, so I get that.

Nikkya Hargrove (28:47.019)
I thought you had two sons. Okay. Yeah. Good luck. Good luck to you. Thank you. Thank you.

Michelle Glogovac (28:49.102)
Nope, girl and a boy. Yeah, one of each. So, yeah, it's awesome.

Thanks. And to you, my friend.

Michelle Glogovac (29:02.956)
Where can everybody find you? Buy the book, Mama, and visit your well, we know your store is in Stratford, Connecticut. So can you just give everyone a website? Where should we follow you? Find you.

Nikkya Hargrove (29:11.028)
Yep. Yep.

Nikkya Hargrove (29:14.974)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm only on two platforms, technically three if you count LinkedIn, but Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at Nikia Hargrove. You can visit my website, nikiamhargrove.com, and you can buy the book at your local bookstore, or you can go to bookshop.org and support my bookstore and select Oboto Serendipity Books as your bookstore of choice.

And then go ahead and order mama there. Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac (29:45.658)
I love it. Thank you so much, Nikia. This was a blast.

Nikkya Hargrove (29:48.736)
Thank you, ditto. Thank you, Michelle. Enjoy your coffee.

Michelle Glogovac (29:52.816)
Okay.