Michelle Glogovac (00:01.104)
Hello, Azul and Steve. I'm so excited to talk to you too.

Azul & Steve (00:05.146)
I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you, Michelle, for having us. Yeah, thanks so much.

Michelle Glogovac (00:08.038)
It is very rare, I want to say, that I have met guests in person and then interviewed them. So this is like super exciting for me.

Azul & Steve (00:19.854)
Yeah, we're thrilled. Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac (00:22.01)
because getting to meet you in person, you are just, I adore you both. You're the kindest, nicest guys ever and just the sweetest things. So I'm thrilled that we're friends and we get to chat all about you guys and your book and let everybody else get to know you.

Azul & Steve (00:38.222)
Yeah, thank you so much. We love talking about it.

Michelle Glogovac (00:39.962)
Can you introduce yourselves before we dive even further in and I go down the street?

Azul & Steve (00:44.888)
Sure, this is... Well, I'm Steve. I'm Steve Vanoy. And I'm Asul Theronis. And we're the co-founders of Authors Who Lead. And we write typically nonfiction and help others write them. And in this book series, we decided we would write together, which is something we've never done before. And writing fiction with purpose is something we've come to understand is important because you're writing for something bigger than selling a book.

you're writing for some sort of legacy. And this legacy that we wrote about the adventures of Cinder Bottom is about our father and Steve's dad and his life growing up in a small coal mining community in the hills and hollers of southern West Virginia and about the red light district he grew up next to and what it was like. And so we took all those small stories we recorded during the pandemic and we turned them into a series of novels and he got to read them before he passed away, at least the first two.

one and a half. So that was really an incredible journey. So that's, that's who we are.

Michelle Glogovac (01:45.668)
I love it. Gone Missing is the name of the first book. Would we call it a YA novel? Is that what it's considered?

Azul & Steve (01:54.456)
You know, because it's not really, we put it in there, it doesn't really do well. There's some, it's, know, mature stuff in there because there's brothels, there's gambling, there's things like that, moonshine, but it's from the perspective of 14-year-old boys. So it has that lens. So I would say it's definitely young adult in nature, but it's definitely probably more people who love.

Nostalgia historical fiction and like remembering the past. Yeah, I was gonna say historical fiction The nostalgic aspect it's kind of more of a fun Mystery adventure type experience. So I think of like reading Hardy Boys when I was a kid with my mom or you know books that are somewhat innocent, but they they might Open up the door to some your imagination for what was happening

Yeah, would say innocence has shifted since that time. like innocence of what used to be innocence is different now. So I think that's why it could still work. It seems like a very innocent book in comparison to the rest of world.

Michelle Glogovac (02:53.956)
Right. In comparison, just turning on the TV and they can say certain things and do certain things that I find questionable. And, you know, it's funny because my son started reading it the other day and he goes, mom, what genre is this? I need to write it down for school. And I went, well, it's YA for sure. And goes, it's not a genre. Is this historical fiction that I'm about to read? And I went, yep, yep, that's what it is. And he is way beyond where I thought he was.

Azul & Steve (02:56.944)
correct.

Azul & Steve (03:00.964)
That right.

Azul & Steve (03:16.592)
Bingo. That's awesome. Great.

Michelle Glogovac (03:24.682)
Share with me how you got to hear these stories from your dad. Did you have to ask about them or are these things that he was sharing throughout your lifetime?

Azul & Steve (03:35.664)
Well, I would say my dad is like supreme storyteller. He he's always he was always like that. We lost him two years ago. So I still feel like he's with us, certainly in these books he's living. But he was always a storyteller. It's one of the things I think that made him so unique is he could recall these times from when he was growing up in this area that he was like 15 or 20 minute walk.

to where this Red Light District cinder bottom in the town of Keystone, West Virginia, which is in McDowell County. And it's kind of like an entire place of its own. It's so unique. It's so diverse. It's changed, obviously. I mean, when he grew up there, it was really a big booming bustling coal mining area where there were lots of people. But yeah, he told us stories. He never told me any of these stories.

until we started hearing them, what, four or five years ago. I think it was that he, when we started dating, we started getting to know each other, took a while, you you have families blend, but he always wanted to pull me aside and tell me, because I was so curious, I didn't, I don't know anything really. So he was like, let me tell you one Azul, and he would tell me a story that seemed totally far-fetched and nuts, or sort of like, not what you expect a 13 or 14 year old kid to be doing.

So I would just write it down or I'd record them and eventually we're like, we need to just record these dad, cause there's so many now, like 30 of these stories you keep telling us. And we taught them how to use zoom cause it was pandemic. We couldn't get there. So we recorded them on zoom and we were accustomed to having these FaceTime conversations with my dad and with my mom. We've done that for years. seven years ago, well actually nine years ago, we left the country.

And for two years we lived overseas. So it was a way that we could stay more connected beyond a phone call. So for a long time they had been accustomed, of my parents. And I think that's at the end of our conversations and we just enjoy them so much. We've traveled together. We did lots of things together in person. When the pandemic hit a few years ago, that was the opportunity again to really focus on our FaceTime sessions.

Michelle Glogovac (05:35.002)
Mm-hmm.

Azul & Steve (05:54.856)
And that turned into, hey, Dad, maybe we should record these. Maybe we need to write this down. Would you want to write a book with us? Like, we could do all the heavy lifting. You provide the seeds of the stories or the ideas, if you will. And he loved it. He jumped on it. He was like, absolutely. Yeah, let's do it. That sounds awesome. Yeah. So that's basically what

Michelle Glogovac (06:15.15)
love it. It shares that part of history. You get to relive it as if you were there. But then it's also like these mischievous little, what are they up to? The main character, Smokey, he's lurking around trying to figure out what the mystery is and why somebody's in town. And I love that he goes up to all of these adults and these,

business owners and they all know him, they welcome him and they just chat it up and he's helpful too. He's so helpful and resourceful. You're just like, yeah, you're a good kid who's drinking moonshine and smoking cigarettes, but you're a good kid.

Azul & Steve (06:56.462)
Yeah. Let's get around. Well, and that's the thing we had to reconcile when we're telling the story. So he might say something simple like, yeah, I used to buy liquor from from Ed over there. And I was like, huh. So that I would have to imagine. What do we where would he be? Where would that be? Where would he be selling it? And.

he would tell me stories about somebody and say, yeah, well, he had four kids. then he'd say, yeah, his dad was in the penitentiary when his brother, and I was like, I just would shovel these things in a little envelope in my mind. And then when I just write writing, they would just pop up and I would just go, that must go here. that must go here. So he never told us full stories. They were just those little teeny moments. And then my job as the story creator is to map out the story and then give Steve the chance to make it more like West Virginia with the.

names of the trees and he goes well the road was this that that's not this holler it's this one or they wouldn't have said it like that they would have done this and i like i wanted to sound so familiar that when people were done i kind of feel like i want to go there i think i've been there kind of feeling that's the goal of what we were trying to make a place that no one even people 30 minutes away don't want to go there anymore it has a negative reputation for a different reason now but what we want to do is paint the picture of what it was like for smoky when he lived there

Michelle Glogovac (08:11.942)
Mm.

Michelle Glogovac (08:18.692)
Yeah. And Dewatt, his friend.

Azul & Steve (08:18.948)
And that's where it was.

Do what?

Michelle Glogovac (08:25.136)
And you can just picture this little guy. He had to have been a little guy, you know, who's off in his own world, wondering things. And then all of a sudden he is, he's there and he's alert and he's really watching and paying attention that you didn't expect it. And Smokey didn't even expect it.

Azul & Steve (08:43.344)
Yeah, he's fully present but he seems so out of it and the character got evolved because I was just imagining that young people in a place like that don't unless they're planning to go to college they don't have any reason for school to matter and for do what he knew his fate and so he just didn't worry about school he was only there for his friends so his total interest was locked into a world he created and so he seemed to be

the way he protected himself from society, the way they treated him. And yet for Smokey, he always saw him because Smokey was the one who bullied him initially. And then...

Michelle Glogovac (09:19.386)
I know. I'm just thinking back to that scene where how they became friends and you're just going to make me cry with, know, one stealing the lunch and he's like, well, then you must need it. Just, you know, and now we're going to be friends and I'm going to share and my goodness.

Azul & Steve (09:35.888)
Yeah. I think I wrote that scene when I realized, I how would Dua respond to this bullying? And I was like, I don't know. Let's find out. And I go, ooh, what if it was smoky? It was the shit. Oops, sorry. I don't know about your. Was the person that doing it that like. You know, because we've all been the person we wish we were sometimes. I was kind of a jerk.

Michelle Glogovac (09:52.247)
That's okay.

Azul & Steve (10:04.48)
I wanted Smokey to have some redemption, but I also wanted him have flaws, like to know that he's capable of being that way. And yes, he was a little person, but I think I just wanted to show that he could potentially always be that person if he chose to be. And I think that's the thing in humanity. We all have that choice. We all have reasons we could be that jerk, but we could make a different choice. And I think that's why relationships are so special is that do what is just always there no matter what seems to happen.

Michelle Glogovac (10:25.872)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle Glogovac (10:33.572)
Yeah, they're the best of friends. It's the sweetest thing ever. And they rescue each other and we're not going to give it away. But, you know, I do want to talk about the end of the book because we won't, I'm trying to think of how we don't give a spoiler, but at the same time, it was so meaningful and how it all came together. And I did post on Instagram. So go back to my Instagram, everybody, and you will see that

Azul & Steve (10:49.295)
Okay.

Azul & Steve (10:59.152)
Thank

Michelle Glogovac (11:00.35)
on the anniversary of Ruby Bridges going to school is the day that I finished reading your book. And at the end, there is a tie-in to Ruby Bridges. And I was like, I was blown away. I was flying. I told you guys and I'm crying. And I had reached out to Ruby actually last year when I was teaching my Girl Scouts. We read about Ruby Bridges and I just thought, you know what, maybe she'll do a podcast interview or I don't know, maybe she can see the girl something.

Azul & Steve (11:07.344)
Hmm.

Michelle Glogovac (11:30.126)
And actually her publicist called me and she was in the middle of a tour and everything, but he personally called and I was blown away that Ruby Bridges publicist phoned me to say, thank you, but not right now. And so it's been even more special to me, you know, to share her story and to make sure that we remember what she went through and then to have it tie in with you guys. was like, what the?

Azul & Steve (11:58.064)
The synchronicities that happen when you're not paying attention. Because when you messaged me about that, was really touched because Steve, it's meant a lot to see because he wasn't expecting that either. The way it comes out, I wasn't expecting what rolled out of the sack of that back to

be that I didn't know what was gonna happen. That's another thing I was like, God, if it's that and not something else, I don't know, like this could turn into a really dark book. I don't know what's gonna happen.

The thing that, the reason I wrote that, besides being wanting to, her being one of my heroes for Rebidges, was her mom was my hero more so, to be honest. It was her mom that I was always a fan of. And that day that I wrote that scene, her mom died. It was almost a year to the day a week before I think that, that, yeah, when I wrote that, was like, I need to, I don't know what this.

How is this gonna fit? I'm not gonna try to fit it in here, but I was still moved by that day. I felt the need to put that in there, so.

Michelle Glogovac (13:06.566)
It's just absolutely crazy. We're going to have to tag Ruby. We're going to let her know that we're talking about her and that this was all, it just all came together in such a magical type of way and so special, you know, out of all the people, all the stories, anything that could happen, that it was the three of us who connected. reading your book and then we bring Ruby Bridges into it. Mind blown.

Azul & Steve (13:10.862)
you

Azul & Steve (13:31.418)
Right.

One of the really cool things with historical fiction and with this book, this series is the opportunity to where there's a blurred line between what really happened and what's fiction, what's not real here. And what's an honor is like some of the people who grew up younger than my dad. My dad was born in 1937. So, you know, that

The people who are reading it who are in their 70s, maybe they grew up more close to the 50s when this takes place, hearing their feedback and they're like, that's exactly what it was like. I remember it just like that, you know, even though it's all fiction, but it's based on reality. The sidekick do what? Based on a real person. And when my dad first got the manuscript, when we had the first book handed over to him to kind of see his reaction,

He was only a few pages in and he looked up and said, that's my buddy, isn't it? And I won't share his name just because of protecting him, but it's a real person, know, like that all these things were real in some form or fashion, but some of it's made up. The majority of it's made up, but the realness is the place is real. And I wanted it to feel like you could see it, like you could walk down the street and go, I'm in syndrome. could feel it. And so I don't know if that's what it comes across like, but that's, that was the goal.

to tell the stories of Appalachia that aren't the ones that are coming out, the narrative that are being pumped by the media. So we wanted to have two stories of what it's like by the first account experience of people. so it was important for us to honor our father, tell his stories, but also honor those people and honor this group of immigrants, people who just came who were dumped there to bring coal out of the earth.

Michelle Glogovac (15:10.436)
Mm-hmm.

Azul & Steve (15:31.5)
These thriving, beautiful communities that no longer exist. now are gone, or at least they've hushed them so they can strip mine and they don't need to worry about. But these communities were people's livelihoods and built this nation with coal. So anyways, we really enjoyed it. And I love this style of book. I just found it easy and effortless to write as if I were.

just watching it unfold. wasn't writing it. That's why I was so surprised when Ruby Bridge just came up, because I wasn't intending to put that person in the book at all. Why would I put that in the book of... There was no real connection. And that happens to me if something comes up, I'm like, I don't know why this is coming up. I'm just gonna let it be, because there must be a reason. And the synchronicities that happen with you are part of that reason. You never know what impact you're gonna make on someone by letting that happen.

Michelle Glogovac (16:19.108)
I love it. And what a gift, not only for the people, but for your family too. Your family must be so grateful that they have these stories, that they know that it's about grandpa, it's about an uncle, it's about your dad that they now get to hold onto because so many don't. And you were smart enough to, proactive enough to get all of these stories down when you did.

Azul & Steve (16:24.784)
you

Azul & Steve (16:48.472)
Yeah, I think that's the thing I noticed is I said, if we don't do this now, Steve, it's easy to talk about wanting to do people talk. That'd be really great, but very few people do. And I didn't want to be to be one of those memory books that people make and put all the Facebook posts. And I wanted it be something more meaningful and not because those aren't meaningful, but because I thought this could be really meaningful. Like if we use it in the right way, not only will it capture Smokey's legacy, it'll capture so much more about a world that's gone.

And I've got to go to Cinderbottom where it was and see what's left of it and be in that place. It's just, it's hard to imagine it being bustling, but if you do, you see this amazing city, this amazing thriving place where there's plenty of people where now there's just abandoned homes and few residents.

And I said earlier communities are gone. It's not that the there are physical structures and there are people and the communities are there but the contrast of having over a hundred thousand people in McDowell County, West Virginia in the 1950s with bustling theaters and streets and shops and food and just immigrants and

people from every all walks of life and very diverse, a very integrated community. Probably more African-American than in the area where my dad was from, Keystone, North Fork. Really interesting, really unusual. And to see that, that's what I meant when I say communities are gone. The people and the spirit is still there in some ways, but there's not a way to rekindle that when, you know, it was like, is that over a hundred thousand people? Now you have like 18,000 people.

It's quite different. think of, know, ghost towns or like old Detroit or something. Yeah. Or places that lose the engine that's driving a lot of that economy and people move, move away. So.

Michelle Glogovac (18:29.691)
Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac (18:42.404)
loved also, I'm thinking to the brothel and the woman who ran it and how she took in these girls that you, you I think that you go in with the assumption of, well, they're there to make a buck and, you know, they're naughty or whatever your assumption is, when in reality she was trying to save these girls who came out of really bad situations. And it wasn't that they were all doing something.

It could be that they were just there to hang out too, per se. And just to see that other side, I thought was really beautiful that she was rescuing people, that you had the store owner who had been in prison and nobody was going to mess with him. And yet he was also one of these giving people and that they'd have their barbecues all together.

Azul & Steve (19:14.096)
Mm-hmm.

Azul & Steve (19:20.836)
Mm.

Michelle Glogovac (19:36.91)
you felt like everybody just loved each other and they were there and then, you know, six o'clock would hit and things might change a bit.

Azul & Steve (19:44.24)
Well, I think thank you for saying that because I wanted to paint the picture the again all the narratives coming out of That part of Appalachia or like it's just seen in heightful It's just saw them and go more over here and I was like, know what? You don't know anything about these people and you're making judgments about them and yet It was the minister who was there laying with her and yet you're judging these people The morals are shifted. But what I noticed is I said what if

What if you saw them as human and you saw the depth of who they are and why they're there? You maybe wouldn't judge them so harshly. So Big Ma is the name of that character who runs that brothel and Big Ma's house. This is how our dad described it. goes, hey, there's houses up and down that street. We're like, well, what's a house? He's like, that's a brothel. That's where they come to lay them in. I go, well, why do you know? He's like, well, mom, you need to leave. then he pushed the ground right out and mumbled to you. I was like,

He's like, well, and he would start telling the stories. That's where this idea of Dula and Smokey getting asked to paint the rooms where the girls stayed and they just would imagine things and have, you don't have to say that. You could imagine these kids wondering what that was like. And these are things he would tell us. was like, dad, you're just killing me right now with this. But he would tell us stories of these women, these young girls, and he would get to know them. And of course, because he's enamored with their beauty and what they're standing for.

But he really did errands for them. He did do that. He was doing paperboy over here and then run over here and do errands for the brothel. It was just so interesting to me. So I wanted to do justice to these humans who are making the lives of people who are suffering just a little bit better. And their lives were getting a little better too. I didn't want it to be a desperate situation. And Big Ma's character represents that. And in book three, you find out why Big Ma showed up.

Michelle Glogovac (21:37.766)
I can't wait.

Azul & Steve (21:40.944)
There's that element of, or at least the way my dad would describe it is like what happens in Cinderbottom stays in Cinderbottom. know, kind of that Vegas in Appalachia on some level. But you know, this type of place was booming and really just came about and it disappeared in the sixties, I think is when he said it kind of dried up or things just shifted. The times changed and

Michelle Glogovac (21:49.958)
Mm-hmm.

Azul & Steve (22:09.732)
The need for coal shift. Really the need. Yeah. The need for coal shifted and brothels. It's just hard to imagine that that was happening when he was a kid. Yeah, it is. And that he and his friend would just go and say, hey, can we do some, could we work for you? You what can we do? How can we help? It boggles my mind still. I, you know, like I said, he didn't tell these stories when I was growing up. Obviously.

Michelle Glogovac (22:37.166)
you might have turned out differently.

Azul & Steve (22:39.888)
Right. I think fiction with purpose is really about making meaning of it. So I just didn't want to tell the story. I wanted to make everything from that Ruby Bridges to this humanizing sex workers to making colon not the enemy to making people who come from different places mean something. So I think writing a book like this.

for me is really, it's what gets me up out of bed. love doing it. And I didn't know how much it would mean because writing books together is so different, honestly.

Michelle Glogovac (23:15.588)
I could only imagine. I wouldn't want anybody over my shoulder.

Azul & Steve (23:19.824)
Neither so here's how it works. So let me me a skill of tea. This is how it works. Or for book one. Book one. The way book one and two has worked is I didn't let even Steve know what I was writing. So he had no idea where we're starting, what stories are going to be in there, who, none, none of that. He just knew that Smokey would be in the book because obviously that's the focus. He didn't know about do what, he didn't know any of that. He would say, I would laugh and he would have no idea. I was like, this is great. And then when I'm done with this ugly, messy first draft that I wrote in 30 days, I would go here.

you take your first stab and read it and then you start to work on the chapters and we'll talk once you start to work. It's like that's how we do it. So the first two books he'd never seen them until I handed it to him. And then the third book I needed more help because I was getting a little off track because during the middle of third book our father died. So I was just struggling with carrying on I think with the book. I knew I would. So getting back into it Steve helped me by starting reading the first several chapters so I'd have confidence because I was like

I was such a fog, I go, what if this is terrible? I don't remember what I wrote, honestly. So this third book will be a little different, but I still do most of the drafting. And then Steve's, he has the wordsmith that makes it actually, so you could actually understand what I'm writing when you read it.

Michelle Glogovac (24:36.486)
So what was that like, Steve, to be reading this for the first time? Were you just blown away that this is where Azul took it and you were like, my gosh, this is fantastic. you like, wow, let's work on this together.

Azul & Steve (24:47.76)
A little bit of both. Well, he's brilliant at storytelling and I think being the architect of the story, the material, a lot of the little stories that my dad had shared with us on those Zoom calls, I was familiar. So everything was so, was like, wow, I didn't realize you'd put that little story in here. You know, the way he blended them together and made them cohesive.

was so cool. So it felt familiar, but seeing it for the first time and I did what I did. As I said, okay, if I see something that has to be dealt with, you know, kind of like an editor's lens in a sense, I'll just mark a comment, but I'm not going to deal with it right now. I'm just going to move on, just get through it all. I'm not a really fast reader. I like to digest and absorb every single word and sentence and I dwell.

you know, and phrases and I love words. So that was part of it too, is like picking out and recognizing that he had written in a way that wouldn't have matched up with the local, I guess, vernacular. Like what would people really say? And for example, like in book two, I'll just say, because they use the boys, or no, in book one, maybe it's even mentioned, they use worms to fish. No, they use Helgramites.

Like little subtle things. They're gnarly. They're like a centipede. You can search them. And I grew up near the area. I grew up in the next county over. So not immediately in the area where my dad grew up, but I could certainly appreciate it. And I remember as a kid, he would take me on trips and talk about and tell stories. So just bringing those little subtleties into it, the types of trees we might have there.

Michelle Glogovac (26:18.8)
I don't know what those are, but okay.

Azul & Steve (26:44.836)
the way the landscape would feel in the spring. What's it like? Because I might say it's a cool summer morning. I don't know if it's cool summer. I just made it up. He's like, no. Or he would fix those kinds of things. You know what's interesting? Even that train scene. When we were driving to Berkholl and we're crossing over that railroad track right where that scene, he's like, yeah, right there.

Michelle Glogovac (27:03.876)
Mm-hmm. Yep, I know the train scene.

Azul & Steve (27:14.824)
He called it something. I don't want to put it in the book, but it wasn't Dead Man's Curve, but it was something that had a common name. That's what you do with like a tricky curve for a car. But it had a name and he goes, yeah, that's where a woman died right there. And I was like, so this is that's how that showed. It was just wasn't even a story. He just said, yeah, she not everything they can make it. But Dead Man's Cut, something like that. I those little.

once they just fell into the book, I didn't try to plan them. didn't say I have to put in a railroad. That's why the book has the railroad. I was like, that's a pivotal moment where we figure out whether or not who Smokey is, in my opinion.

Michelle Glogovac (27:52.944)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, and now I'm thinking about it. You just want to make me cry with the whole book because they're just so sweet. When you said humanity behind different people, and I think that that's really what this book is and what it teaches is that you have these different people and you may have a perception of what you think they are, who they are, how they're going to act, and then you're pleasantly surprised in a lot of cases that, no, that's not really...

Azul & Steve (28:00.624)
kind of...

Michelle Glogovac (28:25.798)
how they're going to act or who they really are, they're actually really good hearted human beings. And that's what you bring through in all of these characters.

Azul & Steve (28:35.15)
Right. That's what I felt like happens when I go to West Virginia. You have all these stories for what people talk about in the media and then your perception. And then it's the opposite. mean, as far as like, it isn't this big love fest. look, people who are, no, it's not like that. But I'm able to see the depths of the humanity because I spend my time studying, not intentionally, but I'm watching people. And I'm saying like, yeah, I think everyone has a spot of that humanity.

When I wrote Senor Lorenzo, the one who runs the morning house, I didn't know how to make him more human and I didn't want to make him a caricature, but I wanted people to question why he was an older man and was single running this house because I wanted that to be on the minds of anybody who would notice why I wasn't Senor Lorenzo married.

and how much he has attention to his opera and his cleaning and his house and his mother, I'm just leaving those things there. I'm just parking this here for you all. Because I want it to be people to see that besides your perceptions, this is Signore Lorenzo, you're gonna learn to love him regardless of who he is, who you think he is, right? So all those little moments, especially the people of color, the black people in the book, I didn't want them to be seen.

as those people. And I didn't want anyone to have that perception. So that's why I tried to push them all together as often as I could, because that's what our dad told us. He goes, it was called, and it was coined this in a newspaper, I think a reporter called it the Free State of MacDowell, because it was an integrated city. It was more Blacks than White. And there was equal coal miners that were Black. And most people don't think of coal mining as Blacks, but that's a lot of Black people were coal miners because it's the job they could get.

in the turn of the century, right, into the early parts of the year or in the century. But they weren't segregated like the rest of the world. They had to live in this community where you don't get a chance to be segregated. You might have a separate school because that was kind of the way things were. That's why I also put in there what was going on in America around desegregation. I just tried to make it interesting enough for me so I wouldn't give up writing, to be honest.

Michelle Glogovac (30:31.248)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle Glogovac (30:49.094)
Well, I'm glad you did because I didn't give up reading.

Azul & Steve (30:52.368)
Good. The point was, do I want to turn this page? If the reader doesn't want to turn the page, if I don't want to turn the page, then the reader won't. So I've got to make it that interesting.

Michelle Glogovac (31:02.886)
I love it. And so Gone Missing, book one is out. Book two is coming 2025, right?

Azul & Steve (31:10.67)
Yeah, yes, shortly after this recording,

Michelle Glogovac (31:14.566)
Yay, I'm so excited. Can you share where everyone can find it and find you follow you and definitely DM these guys for when you're reading it because Why not? It's always fun

Azul & Steve (31:24.176)
Yeah, especially if you're from Appalachia, we always want to know. So yes, you could get Gone Missing as well as the whole Cinder Venture and Cinder Bottom series on wherever you buy books, Amazon, your local bookstore. And you can find us. You could go to cinderbottom.com. can learn more about Cinder Bottom and about us and the book series. But you can find us at authorsyourlead.com. we also...

have a podcast there and we interview authors usually not as much fiction. So this is really fun for us That's great that was a good interview too,

Michelle Glogovac (31:57.392)
And you can find me on their podcast as well. if you didn't get enough of us today.

Thank you guys so much for coming on and thank you for sharing this part of history with the rest of us in the world because we need it. We certainly need it.

Azul & Steve (32:16.538)
Thank you. We need to celebrate ourselves, our communities, our friendships, our love and commitment to one another.

Michelle Glogovac (32:23.352)
Yes, thank you guys.

Azul & Steve (32:25.882)
Thank you. Thank you.