Michelle Glogovac (00:01.686) Hi, Susan. Susan Lieu (she/her) (00:03.918) Bye. Michelle Glogovac (00:06.316) We've already had too much fun and yet we are only now recording. So we're sorry to everybody who's just tuning in. Susan Lieu (she/her) (00:12.232) This is us on decaf-t, yogi. Michelle Glogovac (00:16.202) Yeah. Shout out to Yogi. If you'd like to sponsor the podcast, reach out. Susan Lieu (she/her) (00:20.566) I read all your affirmations. Michelle Glogovac (00:22.454) my gosh, you're gonna have so much fun. Can you introduce yourselves to everyone please before we go down the next path? Susan Lieu (she/her) (00:30.638) Sure. Hey everyone, I'm Susan Liu. I'm a Vietnamese American storyteller on intergenerational healing. I'm a playwright, I'm a performer, I'm an activist, and I'm an author. I just came out with my memoir, The Manicaris Daughter. Michelle Glogovac (00:44.63) love it and I feel like you should throw comedian in there too. Susan Lieu (she/her) (00:47.95) I'm a failed stand-up comedian that actually just went to solo performance because I thought hecklers wouldn't be at the theater. Michelle Glogovac (00:56.312) I would totally, I'm one of those hecklers, but I, no, it'd be like a funny one. Susan Lieu (she/her) (00:58.912) Why, They're not funny. We actually are running scripts. We're reading a script from our brain and performing. You're like throwing us off the thing. Don't center yourself, Michelle. Like if you want to be on stage, be on stage. Go own that space, girl, go. Michelle Glogovac (01:11.328) No, I wouldn't be there. Michelle Glogovac (01:17.516) I would love to. That's why I I volunteer to emcee at like the kids' gala auction. I was like, let me do it. I will, and then I heckle. So more of like the heckler who's on stage, not from the peanut gallery, unless I'm being spoken to. Yes. Susan Lieu (she/her) (01:22.542) Okay, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're roasting people. You're like, hey, assistant principal, I see you. Michelle Glogovac (01:37.568) Yes. What y'all parents didn't get out last night, did you? Because y'all are drunk and you need to settle down or spend money. Susan Lieu (she/her) (01:41.582) Mmm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (01:45.442) Who needs more budget for mental health counseling? Say hey. Michelle Glogovac (01:48.6) Thanks We should tag team it next time. Yeah. this should just be our new business. Susan Lieu (she/her) (01:53.105) my god, I'm ready for it. You're in San Jose? I can totally fly down. my God. Available to MC, and we also do eulogies. Yeah. Yeah. I think I should definitely MC funerals. Michelle Glogovac (02:04.258) We totally, yeah, that would be good. That would be excellent. Michelle Glogovac (02:12.888) They're one of my favorite things. I actually did one of my first episodes was how much I love funerals because you get to learn so much. And more the memorial service, not the funeral part. Yeah. Yes. Yes. I love it. It's so good. It's like your book because there were parts where I was laughing, I was crying, I was like it was an emotional roller coaster. Susan Lieu (she/her) (02:23.564) Yeah, yeah, Yeah, yeah, celebration of life. I put the fun in funeral. Can you tell I write about grief? Michelle Glogovac (02:41.772) that I thoroughly enjoyed. I loved it. I love you. Honestly, all of it from hearing what your mom did and I loved that you took it upon yourself. You wanted to know what her life was like, what brought her to where she was in wanting the surgery, in putting herself through this, and you wouldn't stop no matter what your family said. Susan Lieu (she/her) (02:43.278) Mmm. What was resonating for you? Michelle Glogovac (03:10.432) I loved your tenacity in that. But then finding out her story and what a complete badass your mom was, that she was a fighter, that she was an asker, that she was doing this lottery stuff. I was like, yes, gamble it, take that money, figure it out. And she just kept going. It was just such a happy kind of conclusion that you come to. Susan Lieu (she/her) (03:39.118) Yeah. Michelle Glogovac (03:39.352) that, yeah, I loved it and I loved how your parents came. I'm just going to retell the whole story here, but how they came to America and they made something for themselves and that you as a child, you're like, we got to have this, what was it? A thousand dollar day or yeah, you were like, yeah, let's have this thousand dollar day. I want to have it. And then you had it. Yes. And then it was like, yep, no, we got to have more of it. And that takes more work. Susan Lieu (she/her) (03:53.347) Yeah. At the nail salon, yeah. Susan Lieu (she/her) (04:02.702) Yeah. Yeah. And to catch listeners up, like, it's not just knowing my mother, it's knowing my dead mother, right? So she dies from a botched tummy tuck. When I'm 11 years old, she's 38. It was a negligent plastic surgeon. He was on probation, had lawsuits against him, no medical malpractice insurance, and waits 14 minutes before he makes a 911 call. Michelle Glogovac (04:09.388) Yes. Michelle Glogovac (04:25.112) She could have just been transported like three minutes away. Susan Lieu (she/her) (04:28.62) Yeah, yeah, totally. So it was a very unfortunate way how she died. And I say in my memoir, she died again when my family never spoke about her ever again. And for the next two, now three decades, we've never spoken about her life or how she died. And so it's not just to know my parents, right? It's also, if I want to go on this journey to become a mother, how do I do that if I don't even know her, right? Michelle Glogovac (04:56.461) Mm-hmm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (04:58.006) And if something goes wrong, who do I call? Right? So I was on this journey to know her, but there was so much shame and silence in my own family where we couldn't speak about it and I could never get any closure about it. That first I go on this quest to avenge my mother's death and make the plastic surgeons like hell. I find out before my big moment to humiliate him, I found out he dies. My back is up against the wall. like, what do do? Like, how do you fight? How do you have an enemy if your enemy is dead? Right? And then eventually I realized like, my God. I still need the very thing that my family, my living family can't give me, right? And that's why the first line in the book is, everyone knows the tragedy of the dead, but let's talk about the tragedy of the living, right? Like so often it's like, we want full house family, but the truth is, is family units are pretty dysfunctional, right? Because there's so much inherited trauma. People really don't have the tools on how to deal with it. Michelle Glogovac (05:50.188) Mmm. Michelle Glogovac (06:00.234) yeah. Susan Lieu (she/her) (06:04.97) And what I didn't realize until I became a mother is actually, this is everyone's best. This is what everyone's best looks like because we're all dealing with our own demons. And so I think the core part of my work is like, how do we experience intergenerational healing? How do we love our family and also still love ourselves at the same time? Because sometimes it's just loving them and not loving us, right? Michelle Glogovac (06:33.719) Right. Susan Lieu (she/her) (06:34.082) Or it's loving us and not loving them. There's estrangement, there's distance, there's extremes. But like, how do we have harmony? How do we try when people just don't have the capacity? Michelle Glogovac (06:51.916) We've just gone so deep. Susan Lieu (she/her) (06:54.264) Girl, you gotta get some scuba gear to go where I'm at. Michelle Glogovac (06:58.84) I love it. yeah, you're just amazing. going back through the book, I'm thinking about all of the things that you also did and how you were on this quest not only to find her, but to find yourself and to really figure out what is it you want? What do you want to do? Who are you? It was all of this. And there were some moments where I'm like, wake up, stop doing that, stop it. And I know your family did the same thing. I'm like, come on. Susan Lieu (she/her) (07:19.117) Yeah. Michelle Glogovac (07:26.488) pull through, don't know what's gonna happen with you. Susan Lieu (she/her) (07:29.23) Yeah, yeah. I mean, I remember I always read the first chapter at a lot of my readings and there's this one line that was like, I was disappointed with the adult I became. You know, like my entire life I was this overachiever. I always felt like I was groomed to be a leader and do something great. And then I find myself just working as a contractor at a very large tech company in Seattle and kind of just being like, this is life. Like this is just... Like I don't, just, it's not the company. was more like I felt like my talents weren't being used. felt like I didn't feel alive in my own life. And I did feel very alive when I was on stage as a standup comedian and things were going great for a year. Like within a year I was headlining at the Purple Onion. I was at Caroline's on Broadway. Like it was like, things were happening for me until I get super heckled at this charity comedy show. So heckled, I'm whispering jokes into the microphone. My siblings who usually make fun of me a lot just buy me a drink. Like it was so bad that night. And I walk away from the microphone for three years and it all comes to a head. Cause I was like, who am I kidding? I'm not actually really funny. And it all comes to a head when I get married and my dad and aunt are like, have babies, have babies, have babies. You're not getting any younger. Come on, come on, come on. And I'm just like, I feel like I... Howard in my own life. How can you tell your kid be what you want in life if I actually did it myself, right? Like I knew my truth and one of my big values is integrity. And I was like, I don't have integrity in my own life, you know? I was like, I'm going to be a tiger mom and project onto my kid and be like, why are you, we can afford drama camp. Why are you not the star, right? Why are you not doing all these things that I always wanted to do that I had to fight for, that I had to get scholarships for, that I had to forge my parents' signature for, right? try harder. You know, like I knew I would do that to my kid. And so I needed to really deal with all my own baggage before even pulling out my IUD. Michelle Glogovac (09:34.22) And that is so giving of you because there's a lot. Well, think about how, no, I love it because I think that there's so many people who don't even think that way and they just have the kids and they're selfish about it. It's like, it doesn't matter. So I need to deal with my own stuff and my baggage. I'm just going to have a kid and I will project it and then you project it on your kids. Susan Lieu (she/her) (09:37.934) You don't think it's kind of dramatic? Susan Lieu (she/her) (09:47.118) That's true. Susan Lieu (she/her) (09:57.602) necessarily selfish. think like it's just like, do you remember that point in your 20s where everyone around you just started getting married or like in your 30s and everybody started having babies and it's just like you just like kind of get carried with this wave of this is the time you do this in your life and you don't want to be behind, you know, so I don't know if it's selfishness as much as you just think that this is the time just because everyone else is doing it. Michelle Glogovac (10:17.451) Mm-hmm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (10:25.558) Also, it is easier to get pregnant when you're younger. Yeah. Yeah. Michelle Glogovac (10:28.36) yeah, yeah, I know. Yes, for sure. But to be able to also take a step back, it's mature too, to take a step back and to realize that if I don't take care of myself in this way before I have children, I will end up being this type of mom and that is not the type of mom I want to be. Susan Lieu (she/her) (10:51.662) Totally, totally. And you know what? Like I got my wiggles out. I got my wiggles out and performed my one woman show 70 times or no 60 times to 7,000 people in one year. Michelle Glogovac (11:03.138) Let's talk about your one woman show. Share with everybody what it was about, what it was called. Yeah. Susan Lieu (she/her) (11:04.632) Okay. Susan Lieu (she/her) (11:08.164) my God. Okay, wait, can I just tell everybody? I'm an accidental artist. I don't have an MFA in theater or creative writing. I have an MBA, okay? So it's like, so much debt to do art. Okay, so that's, I just want to put that there because I always felt like I was behind. know, like I ended up going to Harvard and I always wanted to perform and lo and behold, my classmates have... Screen Actors Guild membership cards. Like they are professional actors. And I was like, I'm too late, you know? Or I tried out for this improv team and I was 30 seconds into the audition and they escorted me out of the room. It's called Enthenice, it's at Harvard. And I was like, yeah, I'm too late. Like everyone had already been doing this for so long. I am too late. And so to find myself in my 30s going back onto stage, and just trying to get the wiggles out with performance. my husband and I made a deal. said, okay, you're gonna do, Marvin, you're gonna do mountaineering. I'm gonna do performance for two years. And at the two year mark, let's, cause we're both kind of on the fence about having kids, you know? And I was like, this is super expensive and bad for the environment and all this stuff. If we just, if we're on the fence and have kids, like let's do the two years of whatever we need to do and like come back and see how we feel, you know? Like I didn't want to regret not having a kid and feel like. I'm missing out on this big life experience. But also if I could just be the kooky aunt, I just think it would be cheaper. know, like it would just be less stressful. And so there was a part of me that just felt like this was my time and this was my container. And I go to the solo performance class and the first day of class, said, tell a five minute story. And I was like, OK, I want to avenge my mother's death. So I to look for a killer. And everyone is looking at me that. Michelle Glogovac (12:40.996) Hahaha Susan Lieu (she/her) (13:01.644) the F, you know, like what? You know, and I'm surrounded by all women in their sixties and seventies. And there's just like me, there's like Asian girl who's 30 and being like, yeah, you've never done that. And that, that's all I ever, I tell this story of how I tracked him down and found out he's dead. And we continue on with the rest of the semester and I never come back to the show ever again. Afterwards, I try out for an improv team. get on it. I was like, my God, I'm getting, I'm getting, it's called the nightmare society. I'm, at I'm like now on stage, but. held by other people on stage. It's like very cool, right? And then someone was like, you can still sign up for the solo festival for 25 minutes. Like, do you wanna do it? I was like, cool, I'm just gonna do this 25 minute thing. I'm gonna do Andy Kaufman weird, absurdist stuff. I'm gonna wear my rainbow poncho. The light's gonna be on me. I'm gonna touch the hammer. Am I here to kill you? Am I not? I'm meditating. Then I'm gonna go feed you all raisins in scene. You know, like that was the show. That was a... this 10 minute concept that I was gonna make 25 minutes afterwards, I'd clap, clap, clap to myself and then I'd go take out my IED. I just was like, this is my type A checklist to get you motherhood, right? I go to a workshop two weeks before a show date and I'm working with a coach and I'm telling her about my absurdist ideas. And then she was like, can we go back to the avenge my mom's death thing? She's like, how'd you get into this? And I told her that story. And she was like, that seems really important to you. you, maybe, maybe we should explore that for the show. was like, explore that? Dirty laundry, sadness, grief. Nobody wants to talk about that, you know? But I'm telling her this, I'm like crying, dry heaving. She's like, seems pretty important to you, you know? Two weeks before show, I get 50 Post-It notes out. I start mapping it out. And I want to tell this journey of how long I've just been... shamed in silence to not knowing my mom and how angry I've been. So I just project all that anger to the doctor and then I find out he's dead. know, like it's this 25 minute thing. I don't know what I'm doing. I pull my friend in and I'm like, hey Charles, I don't know anything about lighting. Can you like just set some cues? Like this is like a few days before the show. Like I don't know what I'm doing. Okay. This is the first show. I keep iterating it. Susan Lieu (she/her) (15:26.926) Wait, I got to tell you though, like afterwards I felt so out of body to be on stage and I'm playing all my family characters. And I go up to my husband afterwards. I was like, Marvin, Marvin, what'd think of the show? And he's like, babe, you cried like 90 % of the time. And I was like, was that good? Was that good? And then a friend comes up to me and he was like, hey, you know, this is like really raw, really raw theater. And I'm like, okay. And he's like, but I just was left with this question. Like, who is your mom? You know, because the only time we saw her was little kid Susan was holding her mom's hand in the coma, just asking for her mom to come back. And I said, yeah, I wish I knew. Susan Lieu (she/her) (16:13.358) So it sends me on this journey to keep asking questions about my mom. And every time I learned something new, I put it in the next show. And the fifth show becomes 140 pounds, how beauty killed my mother. I play 15 characters in 65 minutes. It's the entire arc of Susan to know her mother and actually understand her family, right? Because they can't give her what she needs. You see spirit channeling, you see Spice Girls, you see... Michelle Glogovac (16:34.636) Mm-hmm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (16:42.062) Me playing Feliz Navidad, you see my parents boat escape from Vietnam, you see all parts of me and all I have is a chair. After that debuted in February of 2019, a sold out run, I was like, I want to do a national tour. And I was dragging my feet on signing a lot of contracts because I was scared that I wouldn't pull off another sold out show. The perfectionists in me was scared no one would show up. Maybe I'd lose money. What was I going to do? And then I found out I was pregnant. And then that set the time constraint. The tour had to happen in the second trimester, right? Like I heard first trimester is pretty bad. Third trimester, I'm going to be a balloon. Here we go. And then it turned into a five city tour. Like at first it was five cities because I was like, I want to do 10 because 10 just sounds like a good number. It's arbitrary. And then I was actually having a lot of stress from it. My friend was like, just do five. And I was like, okay. But I like secretly was like, no girl, Danielle, I'm going to do 10 girl. I'm going to do it. And it just started. Michelle Glogovac (17:26.488) Mm-hmm. Yep. Susan Lieu (she/her) (17:53.582) making waves. And at the New York premiere, literary agent was sitting in the audience. Thank God I didn't know, I would have lost my shit. And then it was a five city and it just kept growing and people started contacting me and figuring out like they could host me here or whatever. And it just, grew to 10. I come back to Seattle and then I'm eight and half months pregnant and I have the sequel over 140 pounds. Cause I am over 140 pounds. Michelle Glogovac (18:01.697) You Michelle Glogovac (18:20.952) It's amazing. Same, same friend, same. Susan Lieu (she/her) (18:23.598) Hella over 140 pounds. but it was amazing because it was authentically me. It's sad. It's funny. It's cathartic. And everyone's on this journey with me. And before I just did it for me. And then at the end of the show, I look up and then I see that we're doing it for we. because we all have trauma. We all have these moments of regret. We all wish we could feel closer to our families. And I see that when I infuse humor in the way that I did, it keeps your butt in the seat when it gets really uncomfortable, right? Because it's a roller coaster. And I create moments for you to breathe and then for you to keep going deep with me. Michelle Glogovac (19:06.584) So true. Susan Lieu (she/her) (19:13.47) It's like, I don't really know how to scuba dive, but pretend I did. Maybe you keep training yourself to go a little bit deeper and a little bit deeper to tolerate the demands on your body. And what I say in my book several times is when we feel we heal, and I want you to feel the duality of life, of laughter and joy and tragedy and sadness. I want you to feel the extremities and so that we can sit together in that valley and know that we can choose which way we're going to go, but we're going to go together. I do that in my show. It was me. I did not feel like I was a coward in my life. I felt like this is what I'm born to do because Michelle, when I'm on stage... I feel like that's where I'm supposed to be. I feel in total service and I am so deeply connected with my audience and it's so sacred and intimate. And so that was like a really big challenge when it was like, great, do it for your book. And I'm like, you cannot hide on 300 pages that are single spaced. You cannot hide. But I can also add so much more color and texture and you can taste every single dish that my family is trying to soothe me with and terrorize me with. You can be there. Michelle Glogovac (20:36.106) It's so true. You did an amazing job because I have read, so I'm reading a lot of books and so yours, I think I've read like three or four since reading yours and I can literally see and feel and remember every part from them feeding you and you have to come sit down and you're going to sit down, you're going to eat some more. to the spirits and who's coming and that your dad was channeling them and then you get woken up in the middle of the night. And I remember all of this and to me, knowing that I can remember all of that, I mean, it's a beautifully written book and it takes you on this roller coaster because like I said, I was laughing, I was crying, was all of the things and you kept me, I'm like, I want to know more. Okay, what's going to happen? Do you find out who she is? Susan Lieu (she/her) (21:07.223) Mmm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (21:18.574) Mmm. Michelle Glogovac (21:28.504) you know, to get through and then for you to find people who were there that day who want to help you, who do help you, connect all of the dots and then for the way you connected with your dad. I was like he, it's one of those times where you read about him and I was just, I just was talking to another person who wrote a memoir about her father who had spent time in World War II and how he came back a different man and yet Susan Lieu (she/her) (21:33.902) Mm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (21:41.794) Yeah. Michelle Glogovac (21:58.328) when you then have these conversations to get to know the man, know your dad and to hear what he'd been through and what he was trying to do, it just makes him into a new person for you and for the reader that I fell in love with him. Like, he truly wants the best for you. it was just, yeah, it made me so happy. And like I was a part of your family. Susan Lieu (she/her) (22:11.852) Yeah. Susan Lieu (she/her) (22:19.907) Yeah. Susan Lieu (she/her) (22:24.782) You're Vietnamese, Michelle. Yeah. I mean, isn't that it? Like parent-child relationships, like we want the approval of them. We want to be seen from them. But that's the evolution when child becomes parent, when child becomes adult. And then you can see your parent, not as a peer, but as a human. Right? And to be like, shit, they didn't know everything. Michelle Glogovac (22:27.126) I am, you can see it. Michelle Glogovac (22:48.984) Mm-hmm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (22:55.714) That is what their best look like. They had their own constraints that they were working with. How do I not have any more anger here, but compassion for him and forgiveness for both of us for our behavior? Michelle Glogovac (23:15.67) I feel that from personal experience as well. I totally feel that and understand that. It takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of therapy. Susan Lieu (she/her) (23:25.23) It takes a lot of work, right? To depersonalize it and to really let that go. Really let it go. Because in a way we hold onto it because we think if we keep remembering this narrative as it was, then this is how we protect ourselves because at least we knew how it turned out. If now you're gonna ask me to change my narrative, I'm not sure what it's gonna look like. And that's scary. Michelle Glogovac (23:28.248) Mm-hmm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (23:53.816) But if we can invite that possibility of a two degree shift where we can turn, turn, turn and consider it in a slightly new way with a form of slight new curiosity, our reality can change. The things that trigger us and trigger us and grip us can slowly release its grasp. We don't, for me right now I'm working on, I don't have to keep proving my worth. That doesn't make Me proving it to you every time doesn't make me lovable. We're actually all inherently lovable and I don't have to keep proving it. But now that actually what's really great is neuro-linguistic programming. That shit is banging. But like it's, it helps me see it in a new light, you know, and, and it's actually crazy. Cause once I see it now in my daily life, I have this inclination to behave a certain way of, I'm like, Michelle Glogovac (24:26.178) Mm-hmm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (24:51.864) That's actually coming from proving my worth, isn't it? Huh? Well, I don't need to do that anymore. Okay. I do not need to do that anymore. And it's so freeing of the previous burden. Yeah, because that's how the ego only knew how to survive. And now I'm like, I don't need to do that with my dad. Don't need to do that with my husband or all of my kids' mommy friends. Do not need to deal with. Michelle Glogovac (25:03.896) was gonna say it's powerful. Yeah. Susan Lieu (she/her) (25:22.648) do not need to do it. Michelle Glogovac (25:25.76) I wish we were mommy friends. We are now, yeah, but I wish that I saw you at pick up. Susan Lieu (she/her) (25:27.982) I think we are. Yeah, yeah. We go way back. We've been together like since 42 minutes ago. Michelle Glogovac (25:36.536) Yeah, 43, but who's counting? You're so fun. love the… I feel like with you, there's the fun… It's exactly your one-woman show. The fun aspect of, you you bringing us in and then you get very serious and you're like, shit, I better pay attention now. Susan's going to drop something big. And we're back. Susan Lieu (she/her) (25:54.638) Yeah. Did I tell you? Yeah, you know, my God, the other day, my kid's friend's mom was like, Susan Lieu (she/her) (26:10.808) You're holding a lot of eye contact with me right now. And I kind of makes me nervous. It feels like you're staring at my soul. I was like trying to sell a book out of my trunk, you know? And I was like, I just kind of just continued the eye contact because you didn't say don't do it. I was like, maybe I was, you know, we should look at each other's souls more. And I got to tell you my entire life, like since I was, I can still remember it. Like maybe when I was in seventh grade, I have gotten this line fed to me so many times that It's very beautiful now looking back on it, but at the time I thought it was weird. They're like, you're really weird, but in a good way. You know, what am I supposed to do with that? Michelle Glogovac (26:53.225) But at least they bring the in a good way. Susan Lieu (she/her) (26:56.398) Right. But they would always say that exact phrase. I've maybe like 30 times now in my life where I'm like, okay, universe. Why didn't you use a different word than weird? But okay. No, like it could be like, you're a bright old soul that resonates with me because you tap into my inner vulnerabilities and insecurities, but in a good way. Like I just wanted all of that parenthetical instead of like, you're really weird. Michelle Glogovac (27:08.48) Yeah, like unique. Michelle Glogovac (27:24.781) Yeah. Susan Lieu (she/her) (27:26.616) But in a good way. Michelle Glogovac (27:28.416) Yeah, I would go with the first way. That's how I feel about you. I don't feel that you're weird. Susan Lieu (she/her) (27:34.062) Takes one to know one, Michelle. Michelle Glogovac (27:36.882) And weird, the word weird has a bad connotation these days anyway. Like, we don't want to be told we're weird. Susan Lieu (she/her) (27:41.386) Yeah, well, think Port- Portland was trying to bring it back. It was like, keep Portland weird. You know what that means? Pure, right? Michelle Glogovac (27:46.206) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And now it's used in a different way after this year. So don't be weird. Susan Lieu (she/her) (27:52.183) Yeah. Michelle Glogovac (27:59.703) as you hold up your mug. I love it. Susan Lieu (she/her) (28:03.094) My my mug is a goddess mug, so it has breasts, a large tummy, a butt and like a little tramp stamp from the Potter. Michelle Glogovac (28:14.434) So if anybody's listening and not viewing, you need to go head over to YouTube or Spotify to see all of this. yeah, yeah. Yes. Susan Lieu (she/her) (28:20.964) my God, this gonna be on video. Everyone's gonna see that we're twinning. from like four inches down, like we look like, yeah, like our, one half of us look exactly the same and the other half, you're gonna find out that I'm not white. Yeah. Is that the name of our joint memoir? Michelle Glogovac (28:29.484) Yeah, we do. Michelle Glogovac (28:37.93) and I'm not Asian. Michelle Glogovac (28:43.178) I'm like, we should totally, it'll be our two woman show. We are going to go on the road. Susan Lieu (she/her) (28:45.932) Yeah, yeah, You know, it would be so funny if like we like just like our hands were glued together, so like in our feet. One foot, one foot, one hand. Like we're just like a cut out of each other. We like we can come together and then open up. We could do really cool dancing. We're like Siamese twins, right? Michelle Glogovac (29:04.98) Yes, yeah, we really are. Everybody, yes, this is my twin. We didn't know it until 46 minutes ago, but now we're forever friends and I love it. I absolutely love it. Susan Lieu (she/her) (29:17.1) I know, we might hang out in San Jose, it's awesome. Yeah, yeah. I know, okay. Michelle Glogovac (29:20.234) Yeah, you should. Yeah, we're going to meet in the new year. Yeah. I'm so excited. What are you working on now? Susan Lieu (she/her) (29:30.36) by health. I was feeling a lot of pressure to answer the question, what are we working on now? And so I was like, I've got some, couple of concepts. And I was like, is this a 60 minute comedy special? Cause I want to face my fears around comedy, right? Because solo performance is comedy, but it's not comedy. You know, it's different. And I really admire standup comedians. So I was like, is it that, is it my another one woman show? Is it another book? So I wasn't sure. And I was like feeling, I gotta have something to say to people. I have five TV show concepts that I've been like writing about over and over again. And when I meet people in the film and TV space, it's really exciting to me. So I know that there's a pull there, but I just really don't know how. I'm trying to tell my rational or my conscious mind that like same thing with theater, same thing with book. I didn't know how. Michelle Glogovac (30:29.399) Mm-hmm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (30:30.504) And after I did the thing, realized how low the probability of success was. I'm always kind of like, you know what? Good job, Susan, you naive. Good job for being naive. Because if I really, truly knew how many authors query their agents, 50 to 100 emails where you're not getting a response or they pass, if I knew how much failure was going to be ahead of me, Michelle Glogovac (30:40.984) You Susan Lieu (she/her) (30:59.35) or potentially ahead of me. Cause remember my agent just kind of popped out of thin air, right? Which was kind of like golden ticket Willy Wonka kind of moment for me, which is also kind of like my mom and the lottery operation she ran. So what Michelle was referring to is that my family grew up with very little money and both my mom and dad didn't finish ninth grade in real Mekong Delta. And so when my mom and dad sees all these people around them, escaping on the boat as boat people, they're like, we don't have the money to do that. And my mom's like, okay, I'm going to start an underground lottery operation. I'm going to run it. People around me are going to also sell tickets. And I'm going to win at my own game three times by matching people's numbers, by getting information from dreams. And I'm going to, she just wins it three times, which is crazy. And maybe her life in. Vietnam maybe could have been okay, maybe, but not really under communist rule at that time, right? Like they wouldn't let people really keep their money. And that's how she starts to escape and buys the tickets, these one-way tickets. And she gets foiled five times and it's the sixth attempt, her, my dad, my two brothers, like make it, right? Even though she knew everyone had a 50 % chance of getting capsized, raped and killed by Thai pirates, like so much danger. getting caught and having to go into labor camps. Like she still went for it. And my dad was pretty skeptical and reluctant, but he was like, okay, right? The probability for that to happen, the probability for us to actually make it to America. And then somehow the one who's born in America, me, Susan, and I say in the book, I'm the one with USA in my name. Michelle Glogovac (32:34.54) Yeah. Michelle Glogovac (32:48.163) That was hilarious. Yeah, that was. Yeah. Susan Lieu (she/her) (32:48.256) It was such a good one. That was good, right? Somehow I watched Legally Blonde and get inspired to apply to Harvard, which I never thought of doing, and get in. Okay, the odds of that was nuts-so-ma-guts-so. And then the odds of eventually getting a book deal with the top five publisher and being able to share my story out there to the world. This year, the book was on the best of the... your book lists for NPR and the Smithsonian. Michelle Glogovac (33:21.004) Big deal. Big deal. Susan Lieu (she/her) (33:22.39) never felt more American. You know I mean? Like I was just like, holy, holy shit, these big brands and institutions that means so much that is so American was like, yeah, Susan's book's cool. And I'm like, my God, I'm cool. Am I weird, but in a good way? Cause I'll take that. know, like, yeah, like the odds of all of these hurdles, my mom had to leap over and I had to leap over to get to here so that I can tell you, hey, Michelle Glogovac (33:39.404) Such a good way, yeah. Susan Lieu (she/her) (33:51.202) that person that's holding your feet or holding your hands in the nail salon, they're multifaceted. They actually could be very complex. And let me tell you everything that's going down when you're not there or what they're saying in Vietnamese. Cause guess what? They're not talking about you. They're talking about their rich, interesting lives. And for me to be able to share one type of story about the Vietnamese refugee experience. and tell you how bad we wanted to earn $1,000 in that date so we could go to the most American restaurant in the entire world, Sizzler. What a joy that I get to share and get to live by being a storyteller on intergenerational healing. Because I'm still doing the work, you know? I'm still doing it with my kiddo. I'm still doing it with my family and my siblings. And I'm still doing it with myself. So earlier you said, what am I working on right now? I said, I'm working on my health. I've had this rash for 10 weeks now. Like I've gone to a rheumatologist, dermatologist, Chinese herbal dermatologist, acupuncturist, primary care provider, Zoom care. Like I've gone to so many people and they're like, don't know. I am reading, You Can Heal Your Life Right Now by Louise Hayes. I eat bee pollen. I got 12 vials of blood drawn. Like I'm just like, I don't know what's going on. And you know, the woo woo hippie dippy answer? is I think my body is forcing me to focus internally and focus on myself and care for myself. Like I started doing like affirmations related to that and also moisturizing a lot. And like I'm slightly getting better, but there's a lot of question marks with the medical providers, right? And I've been trying to just navigate the healthcare system. I think part of it is really related to my hangup around having to prove myself to people, right? Michelle Glogovac (35:32.205) Mm-hmm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (35:52.52) And I've had a great year as a debut author. And my honest truth is I haven't really celebrated that or relished in that because I was like, but I wasn't long listed for that or that or that. And guess what? What's enough, Michelle? Michelle Glogovac (35:55.832) Mm-hmm. Michelle Glogovac (36:09.506) Yeah, I'm the same way. I'm what's next. Okay, I wrote a book. Now what? What's next? Susan Lieu (she/her) (36:12.594) What's enough? Right. But see, but what's stemming from that, right? Which is for me anyways, it's that wasn't enough. I'm not, I have to keep proving that I'm enough. And so I'm just really honestly, Michelle, I'm just looking at all of that right now and sitting with it. Because if I don't get that on lockdown, I'm not the best mom I wish I could be. I'm not, I'm not, I'm tired and my family sees that tiredness and that irritability, right? Like that's not the best me. So I really got to get that on lockdown because also I can come back to my work with that purity, that weirdness, right? without trying to prove, but really it's about the essence of the work again. I haven't, like after my editor greenlit the manuscript, it's been kind of two years since I've done something truly creative and it terrifies me. I've got a residency for myself planned in July and I think I'm going to write this next show called Eight Pounds, Eight Ounces and I'm gonna write it in three ways. I'm gonna write it as a TV show, a standup comedy special. And as a one woman show, I'm going to quick write it. Just like, just like try to force myself to produce quickly. The last time I was at Hedgebrook was, I was there for 10 days and I wrote 54,000 words in 10 days. That's a lot people. And I finished my first draft there. And guess what? You can't have a final draft without a first draft. You can't because the perfectionist mind thinks you only have one draft actually. Right. and so Hedgebrook is a very special place. Michelle Glogovac (37:39.17) Yeah it is. Michelle Glogovac (37:51.842) Mm-hmm. Susan Lieu (she/her) (37:55.276) They have radical generosity there where they feed you. You go there for free. And then they hope you pay back somehow to the other women writers along the way. And I love this organization very much. And I'm going to be very curious what I can do in five days. And that's happening in July. So we'll see. I'm also hitting the speaking circuit right now. So I've got a couple of talks. One's called like... heal the past on the future, you know, like, but I love being with people. love being on stage. I love inspiring. So I'm doing that. I have my podcast model minority moms and I'm just trying to create core memories with my kiddo. Michelle Glogovac (38:27.339) You Michelle Glogovac (38:39.19) You're amazing. You just created a core memory with me. I'm so happy. All of it. All of it. I'm so happy. Yeah, you're not weird. I think you were just so unique and amazing and deep. I love your comedy. love your seriousness. I love that you're sharing yourself with all of us and how we can all learn from you as an example because I think we all do need it, myself included. So I appreciate you so much. Thank you. Susan Lieu (she/her) (38:42.54) Which part? Which part? Susan Lieu (she/her) (39:08.514) Hmm. Thanks. Michelle Glogovac (39:10.904) Where can everybody find you? Susan Lieu (she/her) (39:13.58) I'm on the Instagram. Follow me there, but don't follow me home at Susan Liu, L-I-E-U, sounds like you. Go to my website, SusanLiu.me. You can stream 140 pounds from that. Watch my TEDx talk, How to Make Peace with Your Belly Fat, and subscribe to my very honest, no bullshit inspirational newsletter called Yours, Susan. also I have a chocolate company. Yeah, yeah. Michelle Glogovac (39:39.521) yeah, we need to, yeah, yeah, what's that called? Susan Lieu (she/her) (39:41.876) It's called Sokola Chocolatier. Part of the origin story is in the memoir, but my sister and I started it when we were in high school. We have a storefront actually in the San Francisco Airport, Terminal 3, like an E6, like an E6. Yeah, so you can go there. We ship nationwide. They're like, are you online? I'm like, who's not online? Why do we have to say it? Are we on the World Wide Web? Yes, we are. Anyways, so sometimes you can actually find me at the shop and I'll be selling chocolates because, Michelle Glogovac (39:56.02) love it. Michelle Glogovac (40:12.024) I love it. I love it. You are amazing. I am so happy we're now friends. Thank you. Susan Lieu (she/her) (40:12.287) Why not? Susan Lieu (she/her) (40:20.75) Thank you. Thank you so much.