Michelle Glogovac 0:01
You’re listening to the My Simplified Life podcast and this is episode number 69. Welcome to the My SimplifiedLlife podcast, a place where you will learn that your past and even your present don’t define your future. Regardless of what stage of life you’re in, I want you to feel inspired and encouraged to pursue your dreams, simplify your life and start taking action today. I’m your host, Michelle Glogovac, and I’m excited to share my stories and life lessons with you. We’ll taking you on my own journey. This is my simplified life.

Michelle Glogovac 0:46
Hello, friends and welcome to another episode. I’m your host, Michelle Glogovac. I’m honored to have today’s guest on today and we’re discussing a topic that can be triggering and it’s also something that needs to be talked more about, because we need to change the world. Tiffany Bluhm is an author, podcaster, speaker, and preacher and her newest book, Prey Tell – Why We Silence Women Who Tell The Truth is being released in March. I was honored to be able to read Prey Ttell before it’s released and devoured it in just two days. It’s a book about how we have treated the women who come forward with the truth about their sexual assaults, being victims and whistleblowers and the repercussions they have faced, while the accused are often held in such high regard and esteem, that in most cases, they get paid more, it gets shoved under the rug and the world turns a blind eye to it. Tiffany’s book looks at what’s going on in religious institutions, politics, the media and big corporations and you’ll quickly see that it looks the same across the board. She’s giving us the facts behind what is going on and what we can all do to stand up for women who are victims, as well as how we raise our sons and daughters to break these cycles and do better. This interview and book are what I consider content that everyone should be consuming and learning from.

Michelle Glogovac 2:16
Hi, Tiffany.

Tiffany Bluhm 2:17
Hey, there.

Michelle Glogovac 2:19
I am so excited to talk to you today. Because we are going to have like the discussion. I know it’ll be fun.

Tiffany Bluhm 2:27
I hope so.

Michelle Glogovac 2:28
We are I know. Before we even hit record, I’m like, Oh, this is gonna be good. Can you take a moment and introduce yourself to everyone, please?

Tiffany Bluhm 2:35
Yes, I’mTiffany bloom. I’m an author, speaker and podcaster. I live in the Seattle area. I have spent most of my adult life in church ministry, or encouraging women speaking to them in writing to women. And it’s, it’s my call, and it’s my path. I’m most specifically passionate about women’s equality, whether in sacred or secular spaces. And I’m a mom and a wife. I’m adopted, my oldest son is adopted from Uganda. I’m Indian, and my youngest is biological straight out of the chute. And that is about me.

Michelle Glogovac 3:12
And how did you decide on what you wanted to do? How did you come to this as your career?

Tiffany Bluhm 3:16
Oh what a great question. I think in all of us, we know our gifts at a young age, and we maybe don’t know the direction they’re going to take us. But we know what makes us come alive. And writing was really something I was passionate about. At a very young age. I started journaling, like 11. And then when MySpace notes was a thing a billion years ago, I was, you know, posting on Myspace notes MySpace notes, almost like an early blog. And then when blogging hit, I wouldn’t say I was an early adapter, but I was a young adapter, whereas most of it was 35 year old white suburban moms blogging, right. I picked up on it as an early 20 something single gal living in a city. So I’ve always been passionate and I feel most like myself when I’m writing. And that’s translated into books I am about to release my fifth book. And it is also translated to writing for the Bible app. I have several Bible studies on there, writing Bible studies that are printed Bible studies, all different kinds of things. So love to write, and speaking I was a preaching pastor in another life. And I’m honored to share platforms all over the world with incredible people who have ideas that really will impact the way we think live and act.

Michelle Glogovac 4:32
I love that I love that you’re a pastor too. There’s something so inspiritational when you find the right pastor, and you get that motivation, that inspiration and they just stick with you forever.

Tiffany Bluhm 4:44
Yeah,absolutely. Ithink for me, I when I say I’m an author, a speaker a podcaster. In my heart, I tell myself, I’m a shepherd. These are all avenues to shepherd people, love people, serve people, encourage people and challenge people.

Michelle Glogovac 4:57
I love it and let’s talk about your new book because I am so privileged. I got to read the unpublished version.

Tiffany Bluhm 5:04
That’s right you did Michelle

Michelle Glogovac 5:05
Yes. I devoured it in two days, no joke cover to cover. And it’s phenomenal.

Tiffany Bluhm 5:14
Thank you

Michelle Glogovac 5:15
Can you share…It’s about women, women’s equality and what you said and the harass sexual harassment, the discrimination that we we face as women? And what was the reasoning behind writing this?

Tiffany Bluhm 5:30
Yeah. So the book is called Prey Tell – Why We Silence Women Who Tell The Truth And How Everyone Can Speak Up. And it was inspired by my own story of being in a institutional structure, a system that was so broken that when I spoke truth to power as an underlying, and I legit, Michelle, thought I would be believed and heard and understood and respected and dignified in the process, and no such thing occurred. I was dismissed, and the person of power was upheld. And I realized through that experience, this whole system, this patriarchal system, that we operate in, whether it’s in the church, whether it’s in education, whether it’s in politics, business, what have you, it was really set to keep the powerful and power. And for those who have an unpopular truth to tell, it’s not always an easy path. And that anywhere you find an imbalance of power between men and women, usually doesn’t end well for women. And honestly, we all contribute to this, we wouldn’t. We can see the Harvey Weinstein and we see the Larry Nasser, and we think I would I would speak up to that, or I would never let that happen, or why didn’t somebody speak up sooner. But the reality is, there is a system in place that perpetuates these cycles. And unless we all identify how we have contributed to it, we can’t stop it.

Michelle Glogovac 6:47
Absolutely, and to other men that you include in the book are Supreme Court justices now. And just seeing how the women were treated and questioned, you know, by government officials, and then for these men to still get seats, what the most powerful seats that we have in our country. We have these misogynistic pigs up there, you know, that nobody batted an eyelash. And so I can see why some of why women wouldn’t come forward. When we’ve seen it on TV that, you know, it doesn’t matter what they do, nothing will happen.

Tiffany Bluhm 7:26
Right, right. And I think that’s a discouraging thing is like, look how many people did speak up, and absolutely nothing happened. But it doesn’t negate the need to still speak up. Because there is movement in mass, that when everyone begins to speak up, when everyone demands change, it happens. I think, you know, you look at Google in the last few years when employees said, we will not stand for men and superiors and power to treat women with inferiority. And they had a walkout in every major city in the world, because of how women were treated at Google. So you can see that with, with movement comes change. And we have to keep fighting to bend that moral arc of the universe toward justice.

Michelle Glogovac 8:10
How would you go about you go into the book at the end, how we can all be better allies to women. And I think we’ve seen really, with this last election, how more and more people came out, and their eyes open to seeing what Trump has done to women. But what do we do about those because we have over 70 million people who still voted for him. What do we do about the people who turn that blind eye? No matter what.

Tiffany Bluhm 8:40
Yeah, what a good question. You know, it’s so funny, I thought about that number this morning, Michelle. So thank you for mentioning that. And I think anytime that misdemeanor happens in the political arena, it is so divided, right? We love our parties, and we’re willing to excuse the actions of those that we voted for and those that we believe in. And if we had initially a positive impression of that person, it’s really hard for us to change that, affections honestly. And so I think it first takes stepping back and remembering that we’re all broken people, and we’re all capable of evil. I know that sounds really intense, but I think another thing we have to do is appeal to another’s humanity. I think when I think of somebody who voted for you know, the same could be said of people who voted for Clinton in the 90s. I think we have to be able to appeal to the humanity saying would you want this happening to you? This abuse of power at a woman’s expense? Would you want this happening to you? I don’t think you would. This happened to somebody’s daughter, this happened to somebody’s wife, this happened to somebody’s sister. This happened to somebody who has a human heart, who is valued and who is worth dignity on the earth. And so I think being able to first say no, we have to agree that there’s this basic foundation that what happened was not not okay. And there’s no excuse for it no matter if your President, Pastor, politician, whoever you are, we have to come to this understanding that this cannot stand. This cannot stand. And then I think from there, there has to be compassion, there has to be compassion for those who have been hurt by the system, those who have spoken up to power and been disregarded or dismissed. And then understanding what would it take for not only my personal interior understanding to change, and what exterior in this system needs to change? I think it’s a both and, and I think that it first has to happen when we establish a baseline of what is acceptable in the world, especially as it pertains to treatment of women in whatever systems we find ourselves in.

Michelle Glogovac 10:43
I completely agree and I, I really struggle with it. Because especially around this election, you’ve seen so many people, people that I considered friends or people that are family that make you go Hmm, you’re really okay with, you know, what’s going on. And you mentioned in the book, Harvey Weinstein’s brother, the one who paid off people, and, you know, to protect him, and so his wife wouldn’t know. And it’s just, it’s like this it looks to me, it’s a ripple effect, you know, of you have this one individual. And I also want to mention that you say in the book that just because you refer to them as all men, it doesn’t have to be a man who’s doing this. This goes across a bunch of different lines and individuals and people, and not just men alone. So this isn’t like a man bashing type of thing.

Tiffany Bluhm 11:33
Not at all. Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac 11:34
But the fact that people support and cover up, it’s, it’s just this wider circle, I just envision it as a stone going into the water and how you see the ripples, because of all the people who support it and hide it, and just how it gets bigger and bigger. And that’s really, it’s not just the individuals who do these actions, it’s everybody around them, that makes it okay.

Tiffany Bluhm 12:00
Yeah, it’s normalized, isn’t it? Those small slights up to writing payoff checks in the $200 $300 $400 $500,000 mark, you know, I think there’s so much room in between. And also, I want to touch on what you said, Michelle, about how women also can execute this poor behavior. And it’s often internalized patriarchy, I really do believe and the research backs it up that women who have been in proximity to powers enabled to retain that power will abuse other women, so they can retain any semblance of power that they have given to them, and in my situation as well, given to them by men in power.

Michelle Glogovac 12:38
I completely agree and it’s funny that you mentioned that because as I read the book, I did have a former boss, a female, who I related to this completely, and it was recent memories and recently brought up because we were cleaning out our bedroom and boxes of files, and I had printed off emails, and it just infuriated me, you know, where I went, “Oh, I can’t believe that I put up with this and I should have spoken out” and instead I was the one who was let go.

Tiffany Bluhm 13:07
Yeah, yeah.

Michelle Glogovac 13:09
So men and women, it doesn’t matter gender is, does not, it’s not discriminated in this sense.

Tiffany Bluhm 13:14
Right. Right. Yeah, women definitely are low in the pecking order, though, you know, you can see how it flows down to where women who’ve internalized this eat or be eaten mentality, they often just perpetuate these cycles of abuse, overt and covert.

Michelle Glogovac 13:34
And the fact that you also bring up how we’re told to silence and how, especially in the church, you know, shove it under the rug. Be quiet. And, and it reminded me of a time I worked in corporate aviation for 18 years, but one of my first jobs in aviation was at the airport. And it was, you had women in the front, and then you had the men that were out fueling the planes. We had one tenant who would come in repeatedly, and he would sexually harass the women. I told my general manager at the time, and he had it out with him. I was so proud of my manager for doing that because, you know, it was risky, considering he was a customer a paying one, you know, who was a regular, but it starts from a young age and even younger. I mean, I was 20 when this happened and I can remember things, you know, even prior to that, so it’s everywhere. And it starts young, as you mentioned also in the book. Can we talk a bit about your boys and how you’ve talked about what you can do to raise children, especially boys, to not be these individuals?

Tiffany Bluhm 14:46
Yeah, I have two boys 10 and 6 and they keep me on my toes. Michelle, I’ll tell you what, and I think I’ve been forced to…

Michelle Glogovac 14:55
I totally get it. I have a five and four.

Tiffany Bluhm 14:57
That is the ground floor my friend. That’s gonna keep you busy. Whoo. Oh man. I think having boys and being so passionate about women’s equality has been a really fun position. I gotta be honest, because I am so passionate about raising men who see women as equal, I just want a quick story that is just too cute to pass. A couple years ago, my oldest, you know, in a, in a past life, I worked at a at a large church here in the Seattle area and my boys often saw me preaching. And so my oldest one day he asked me, he’s like, wait a second, so can boys be preachers too? And I think of all of the hate mail, and, you know, the public rebuke I’ve gotten from men over the years for being a woman in ministry, and I just thought, man, my kid doesn’t even know that this, you know, disdain for women in ministry, or women in leadership even exists, because in his mind, this is how the world is. So in that way, that’s a perfect story.

Michelle Glogovac 14:57
I love that.

Tiffany Bluhm 14:57
Yeah, so in that vein, I’ve really tried tried to carve out as much as the world may tell them a different story, but the story we’re telling them in our home is one where women are equal, and women are different than you, and at a very young age, it is your responsibility to treat them, just as you would want to be treated, right, and they are just as smart and capable as you and their bodies are to be respected. Their voice is to be respected, their opinions, their ideas, even if you don’t like it, even if you think they’re wrong. So that translates with young kids, and I think this really, the rubber really meets the road come Middle School. But understanding consent. Consent, we love to be like, Oh my gosh, this applies to the plus 18. Not at all. Consent is simply meaning that this person is giving you consent to play tag or to give them a hug. And remembering that women don’t owe you anything, women don’t owe you a hug. Women don’t owe you a high five. Women don’t owe you anything with their body and consent also at this young age means understanding nonverbal cues. If a little girl in class keeps looking at you, like hey, boo, stop that. Then you need to stop it, you know? So understanding those nonverbal things from a young age because I think as as women and as girls, especially, we’re taught to be so nice that we aren’t taught to give that firm no, and especially if our body or our time or a voice has been taken advantage of without an empowering message, you know. Why are deep in our bones, it can be really dissonant to all of a sudden be feeling that power to say no to another boy or a man or anyone who would exploit us. So helping them understand consent in their body, in a woman’s body with their voice, verbal and nonverbal is important. I think also when you move into middle school is really where it gets dicey. I mean, the average middle school girl, by the age of 13, has been harassed, sexually harassed by classmates. And for men, boys, it’s they’re going to be called a wuss, or a sissy if they do not participate in this cultural ritual. But it’s got to stop. And again, I think having pre planned responses and walking that through with your kid, we just, it’s hard conversations to have. I’m the most like conflict averse person and then I wrote this book. I don’t know what I was thinking. But I think one thing is that we really think, Okay, this is gonna happen in the world. There’s no denying it. So in our home, let’s play. Okay, so if a guy makes fun of a girl in the locker room, what are you going to say? How can you speak up? And how can you handle any retribution there might be from others in the room, when you stand up for women? If we can train them now, like, this is not okay, then we can raise men who respect women, and end this cycle of shame, silence and slander.

Michelle Glogovac 18:49
I love it. And I think in addition to that, something that we’re teaching, because ours are so young, is teaching them to go tell someone.

Tiffany Bluhm 18:57
Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac 18:58
You know, if you don’t like the situation, you have complete permission to say no, and walk away and come and tell us, tell us, tell an adult, you know, to give them that authority and that power to go communicate that something is not right and you didn’t feel comfortable. And that’s okay.

Tiffany Bluhm 19:14
Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac 19:15
And, you know, I have a boy and a girl. So it’s that double whammy of teaching my son, what you’re teaching your sons and then teaching my daughter that she can stick up for herself that she can be whatever she wants. And she’s actually said those same questions that your son said about being a preacher, you know, different things that they’ll see on TV. You know, can girls be astronauts? And luckily, we’ve got two in space right now that she can see, that yes, you can do that. You can be anything. You know, their doctor is a female doctor, so she understands that there are women in power. And that’s how it should be.

Tiffany Bluhm 19:52
Right.

Michelle Glogovac 19:52
You know, we can all do whatever they want to do. Something that you said in the book, and it was a quote of you know, when someone says, Well, you run like a girl. that struck me because I have a neighbor who said something, I think it was to my son, about how he ran like a girl. And I just looked at him and I said, You wish you could run like a girl. Like, what is wrong with running like a girl?

Tiffany Bluhm 20:13
Yeah and even the fact that we genderized running like what? You know, this is crazy.

Michelle Glogovac 20:19
It’s not running like Phoebe off of Friends. That’s different. But there’s some fast women out there like the one who ran when she was nine months pregnant was running Yes.

Tiffany Bluhm 20:31
Yes. Oh, sorry. I can’t think of her name right now.

Michelle Glogovac 20:37
And the fact that you say in the book that those kinds of statements and to say it to your children, because these neighbors, they have kids, you know, that perpetuates this.

Tiffany Bluhm 20:47
Yeah.

Michelle Glogovac 20:48
It goes exactly to continue this cycle instead of breaking it. And we need to do better for our kids and for future generation.

Tiffany Bluhm 20:56
Yeah. I think even I love that you’re having conversations in media, we often often, you know, if it’s Netflix or something that we can pause, which is the digital age we live in. We don’t even have cable, but we’re like, pause. Hey, is that how we treat women? Hey, is that how we treat men? Hey, is that how we treat people we don’t understand or know about? Hey, is that how we treat someone with a name we can’t pronounce? I think we’re always is this is this? Okay, what is the benchmark for what is acceptable? and constantly having those conversations? And we’ll never regret it? We’ll never regret it.

Michelle Glogovac 21:29
Absolutely. And you know, we did this because we watched the presidential debates. And we did pause when there was some name calling going on to explain that know, what he just said is not okay. And I’m sorry that I have to tell you that our president, you know, said something that you can’t repeat, but that’s not okay. So yeah, you have to stop and pause, especially in the moment because their minds are being fed with so much information all day long. It’s important to stop in the moment and to recognize what’s going on right then and there and teach that lesson.

Tiffany Bluhm 22:02
Absolutely.

Michelle Glogovac 22:03
So I want to also talk about how you relate this to the church, because although my podcast isn’t necessarily you know, Christian driven, I am Christian. I was raised Catholic, and especially from the Catholic side, what we’ve seen in the church with, you know, priests and abusing children, boys and girls, and even recently, last year, the Catholic Diocese of Sacramento came out with a list of priests that had been accused or they had been found guilty of abuse and one of our childhood priests that we grew up with for over a decade, who baptized my brother, was actually on that list. For it to be quieted. He was just moved to Ireland. That’s just how they handled it. To the Motherland, he’s done. He’s up there. And that’s it. It happens no matter what religion, it really is.

Tiffany Bluhm 22:55
Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s, it’s unique, how the the mainstream culture has put more checks and balances in place for abuse of power, but the church not so much. I think, the way we elevate quote, unquote, calling or charisma over character is dangerous. I think that when we make pre narcissism, a pre requisite for leadership, that’s dangerous. And I think when we allow board members or staff members or parishioners to consistently uphold men in power, ecclesiastical power, without any accountability, that’s dangerous. And in my situation, I was in a faith based context, when I found myself in the undesirable situation of speaking truth to power and man was I met with such scriptural resistance that was completely unfounded. But they were using anything that they could to silence me and put me in my place and I think it is not of God and it’s it’s exactly what Jesus speaks against. And the fact that even just the the news of the resurrection, hinged on a woman’s testimony in the first century, when women had no power, women had no rights, woman held no testimony in court is pretty wild. It’s pretty wild that we would even dare to silence and not believe women when the understanding of the Christian faith rests on it.

Michelle Glogovac 24:33
I love the the different examples you pull from the Bible in it, because there are many stories that I honestly didn’t know. And I went to Catholic school, I was a lector, you know, every Sunday at Mass, but it doesn’t mean that I’ve read the entire Bible, you know, cover to cover. And to know some of these stories of what David did, and for you to call them out and really bring the attention without, I enjoyed the book because it wasn’t like here’s the scripture read it, you know, decipher it. You’re like, no, here’s what it is, I’m going to tell you what happened and this is what’s wrong, so I really enjoyed that piece of it and in learning all of these women who were assaulted, in having, in seeing that, you know, Jesus called them out, not to call them out on the carpet, but to call them out as no, you have a voice as well and we need to respect you.

Tiffany Bluhm 25:27
Absolutely. One of the things I love that is in Jesus’s own genealogy is all of these women with irregular sexual histories, these women who’d been taken advantage of who’d been exploited, and they’re intentionally included, and I’m just like, wow, if that’s not the most beautiful thing, just this idea that women who’d been exploited, it did not negate the power of who they were, and their entire story and ancestry. I just, it’s so beautiful to me to think of that. And I also think, illuminating various stories in Scripture in the Old Testament, and in the New Testament, in Prey Tell was also a way to show of here’s what not to do, like, what happened. There’s a reason it’s in this book. Let’s see what happened. Let’s see how it perpetuated systems of violence against women and let’s course correct, because this is here for us to glean from, to learn from, to lament over and to move on from.

Michelle Glogovac 26:18
Absolutely, and, you know, you also talk about the punishment that we give, or lack thereof, to these men who, you know, like Brock Turner, oh, his dad said he shouldn’t do get in jail. Oh, okay. But there’s a woman out there who has to live with this for the rest of her life. And, you know, it’s like the man can rape a woman, you know, assualt her, do whatever and we’re hushing that. You know he shouldn’t have anything done wrong to him. He should he get if he works with Google, he gets paid out money, right? You know, or serve a few months in jail, no biggie, but it’s a lasting long effect on the victims.

Tiffany Bluhm 27:01
Yeah. Isn’t it wild that we elevate who a man is or who he could potentially become over what he’s done. Over what he’s done and we build this as I call in the book, sympathy, not empathy, but empathy. And, you know, women and men show this alike, it is not just by men offering empathy to men who have abused their power, but really this collective misplace empathy for men, because we’re like, but look at all the good he’s done. We love to excuse an Andy Rubin at Google or a Brock Turner or Harvey Weinstein, because he goes to so many charities or fill in the blank of whatever man or pastor or politician right, because of what he’s done, and it’s just, it can never, that’s apples to oranges, we cannot bring that into the conversation, nor should it negate any punishment, or consequences due to the offender.

Michelle Glogovac 27:59
Right. And I am proud to say that I’m in Santa Clara County, and that was one of my votes to recall that judge.

Tiffany Bluhm 28:08
Wow!

Michelle Glogovac 28:09
But that’s another word something we’re only 60% voted to get rid of this judge.

Michelle Glogovac 28:15
You know, it baffles me. It’s right up there with you know, oh, you’re okay with, you know, an individual leading your country who’s grabbing women and kissing them and doing whatever, you know. And then at the same time, I think about, you know, Joe Biden has been accused of, you know, inappropriate touching or kissing as well. And then, where does that leave all of us as Americans between a rock and a hard spot? When these are the two we have to choose from?

Tiffany Bluhm 28:41
Right. I will say rock in hearts, but absolutely. And I think, you know, I talked about Joe Biden in Prey Tell a little bit because he often gets a free pass because of his age. But we can’t do that, if that’s the case with Trump as well. They’re both in their 70s who are no strangers to abuse of power. And I say that not as that they both abuse their power extensively we know for certain one has. You know, research shows that the more access to power you have, the more sexually desirable you believe yourself to be. The more you look for sexual tries, the more you seek out affairs, you believe that you are so wantable in those situations and you have a completely skewed understanding of what is reality of how people view you, of your place in the world. So I think that we always have to keep that in check of, you know, power really does corrupt as much as we wouldn’t want to admit it, but when everything is at your disposal and you are removed from want or humility that will destroy you. It absolutely will

Michelle Glogovac 29:51
I feel like we’re giving away the whole book.

Tiffany Bluhm 29:54
Oh no, there’s so many nuggets in there Michelle, but there’s there’s so much and again I just want a little, little disclaimer, that I’m not saying that both of those two men are guilty of that. I’m saying anyone in power, they can fall prey to that.

Michelle Glogovac 30:09
Yeah. Well, I think we’ve seen the more extreme with the one who’s currently in power, not when this airs, he will no longer be in power. You know, we’ve seen a much greater extreme. And, you know, we’re not talking about a hug or a kiss on the cheek, we’re talking about something much more further and out there and I think that should be noted as well. You know, I’m not dismissing the claims against President Elect, now President Biden, but from what he’s been accused of versus of what Trump’s been accused of, are totally different. So yeah, you know, it isn’t so much of a rock and a hard spot, but at the same time, you know, I just wanted to bring that to light of, you know, it’s like, they’re all doing it. All these, these powerful men, not all of them, but the ones that we’re having to choose from and that’s just, that’s a tough one, because we’re trying to break that cycle. And yet, that’s what we’re presented with.

Tiffany Bluhm 31:08
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Michelle Glogovac 31:11
You are amazing. I love that you wrote this book, I hope everybody who reads it takes it to heart, because like I said, it’s not just, you know, in the Christian faith, and in the churches that this is happening. We’re seeing it everywhere. Everywhere you look, this is happening. And so I think that’s why we all need to read this.

Tiffany Bluhm 31:29
Yeah, it really is. It permeates every place in space that we occupy and that’s my hope that it would go far and wide. Thank you, Michelle, for having me.

Michelle Glogovac 31:39
Oh thank you! Can you please share where everyone can preorder your book and where they can find you?

Tiffany Bluhm 31:44
Yeah, you can pre order if you go to Tiffanybluhm.com and there’s all the links to your favorite retailers and you there’s all kinds of preorder goodies. I’m offering a free digital summit with a historian and a journalist and a psychologist talking about this issue at large and their unique angle and understanding about it, as well as a custom print by the artist Scott Erickson, and so many other things you can learn about at Tiffanybluhm.com.

Michelle Glogovac 32:11
You are incredible and the book is amazing. You did your research. It’s not just an opinion piece. It’s really, you got footnotes and everything. So it’s incredible. And I thank you, I thank you for sharing it with the world, sharing yourself and really being that voice that that so many needs to hear.

Tiffany Bluhm 32:30
Thank you so much such an honor to be with you.

Michelle Glogovac 32:32
Thank you.

Michelle Glogovac 32:35
Friends, I really encourage you to order Tiffany’s book Prey Tell and to reflect on how you can speak up more and how can you break the cycle that we are seeing every single day and in every industry. As I said last year that I want to change the world and in speaking out against accepting this behavior. We can all change the world for the better and lift up the many women who have been shamed and shushed. It’s time we take a stand to do better for each other. We are in charge of our futures and have the power to change what tomorrow will be. Thank you as always for joining me and until next time, stay safe, stay healthy, and stay happy.